Sound Pollination

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Ep. #3 - Dylan Owen Official Transcript

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all right everybody episode 3 of the
20-somethings podcast today we have
Dylan Owen on Dylan Owen is a rapper or
I would call him a poet as well and I do
during this episode Dylan and I actually
go way back we grew up in the same
hometown upstate New York and it's a
small town called Goshen I remember
Dylan on the schoolyard when we were
growing up having rap battles and since
then he has come a long way
releasing multiple eps tons of really
amazing cinematic music videos his
lyrics are some of the most visual that
I've ever heard and I've always admired
him admired him his music his content
and it was just really really nice to
have a chance to sit down catch up and
have an intimate conversation so without
further ado
[Music]
we're here today with Dylan Owen he is a
rapper but I usually like to ask her
guess how they want to label themselves
so Dylan you want to introduce yourself
and tell people I guess what you do
definitely how's it going everybody I'm
Dylan I'm an artist from the city I rap
I play guitar play keyboard and I'd say
my music is style somewhere between
hip-hop and singer-songwriter yeah
definitely I would also throw in poet
I've this past week I've been talking
about how you're coming on the show and
I'm sure your music to a handful of
people actually showed it to me my
girlfriend and she said he sounds more
like a poet than a rapper I'm not sure
how you respond to commentary like that
it's cool well I think it's flattering
like I don't know if I I don't know if
I'm good enough with the writing to be
considered poetry but I definitely
appreciate it and I do think of it a lot
as I'd say I approach it a lot the way
people probably approach poetry yeah and
I write poetry all the time
and that's a lot of what ends up as the
lyrics of the songs
yeah well the themes that you seem to
incorporate into your work definitely
steps outside of I guess what you
normally expect when you're listening to
rap music I don't listen to rap really
at all and I I mean I I listen to your
music before because Grant has played it
and then of course once you're coming on
the show is like oh I got a really like
let's new stuff and kind of get familiar
with it and I started listening and he's
one write about the poetry thing and to
like I was listening I was like wow like
the way he involves live instruments
with that sort of flow that you have
it's like it's like more of a poetry
flow than it is like like a normal I
guess what I would typically think of as
like it's not Drake right exactly yeah
yeah well in terms of flow especially
with hip-hop right now everyone's doing
let's say like really
tempos and those kind of flows and I'm
definitely sticking with the flow that
is like more natural for me and I think
it's because the kind of like lower
tempos that I use and that that's sort
of let's just call it like a kind of
boom bap temple range that's more of
where I feel like I can get my sentences
out the most clearly mm-hmm and also
kind of fit the most words in without it
sounding jumbled or whatever so it's
definitely for me it's all about the
writing in the words and the poetry of
it so I think that description is
totally yeah for sure so and in addition
to that then we were talking about this
a little bit before the show started you
know it's not totally resyncs I know
you've played with a band before but in
the video that you sent me over it's the
live version of Mourne
which was awesome thanks and I saw
you've been posting some clips from the
show that you had a couple of weeks ago
like you're playing with what what
instruments are you playing with now a
violin guitar yeah so my normal setup
will be gay Valley plays violin and
keyboard and then Nate sander plays
trumpet and guitar and then on some
songs I'll switch out and play the
acoustic and then probably one or two
songs I'm gonna end up playing keys live
on but that's sort of the setup that's
on and for like a full-on live show with
a speaker system that whole thing will
play a beat and then layer that with all
the instruments so it'll be like a
hybrid yeah kind of thing how's that I
just wanted to say it's funny you bring
that up because we if the listeners
don't know grant and I went to high
school together so that's how we know
each other originally and that is kind
of how I started was with a band and
playing with instruments like that sort
of in like eighth ninth grade I was
playing guitar and rapping in my room
but I didn't ever see a world where that
would end up like being able to record
that like I just didn't understand how
you could really do that so now I'm kind
of like coming around to my roots again
so it's just funny you remember that yes
I think that's kind of unique to you
yeah no 100% it's a it's actually really
funny it's not funny our history but
it's fascinating because I was telling
Keith earlier this week that I remember
being quite young with you
like maybe ten or eleven years old
because we used to hang out at
dinsmoor's all the time like all the
time and I remember being so young but
you were rapping then like they had so
we were at their old house and they had
the drum set in the front room and I
have a vivid memory and you might not
remember it I remember we were just like
fooling around his kids like playing
music like somebody was on the drums and
stuff and like you were rapping and you
were like oh yeah your rapper name could
be phat grant like this Fat Joe was
really bad back then Wow
I don't remember that yeah but it's
interesting because like you were
rapping from such a like a young age
line was that like seventh grade or it I
think even earlier than that I think
that was probably like fourth or third
grade or something I don't know I always
like try to think back to that like I
had a similar conversation with somebody
the other with a Conner the other day
Conner Burnett yeah and we were just
like reminiscing on those times that the
dinsmoor's in that house and I don't
know it's funny man because I spent a
lot of time there and so did you growing
up like yeah we're just always there I
don't remember that the drum set or
anything though but I definitely believe
that yeah yeah probably I feel like when
I was in like sixth grade would have
probably been the first time I would
have been rapping like out loud live and
mm-hmm
with us jamming or something yeah what
was so like back then who were you
listening to back then I was listening
to a mix of just stuff that was on the
radio I think at that point when I was
like in sixth grade you know but I also
my dad used to play a lot of music in
the car on the way to school
he would play Beastie Boys and and Kid
Rock like all and cake and these kind of
weird random things that sort that I do
think probably influenced me but there
was a lot of random mixtape music like
that like I love the Beastie Boys I
remember that I loved Smash Mouth it's
like one of my favorite albums oh yeah
oh my gosh what's the others like smash
mouth and like Uncle Kracker remember
yeah yeah like all that has stuff that
was all on the radio so I'm sure that
influenced me and then sixth grade
seventh grade I was getting into more
mainstream hip-hop like just Eminem
jay-z whatever like I love jay-z the
black album that kind of stuff
and then through that I got into like
kind of mainstream but kind of
alternative hip hop like Talib Kweli mos
def those type dudes and I was really
into that stuff too and I was into like
Linkin Park and yeah that's did you find
like when you start breaking into the
hip-hop community how did that go over
for you because you don't you don't
necessarily fit the image of like again
your stereotypical rapper you know and
again just like with the instruments
that you utilize in the way that you or
the content that you talk about your
music like how did people within that
community response so you're like
playing shows I'm assuming with maybe
some other rappers or were you just
playing with band I don't know back then
I was just playing me in a DJ but yeah
we would definitely play with other
rappers and everything I think it was
people definitely would think of it as
different you know I think it was always
like wow this kid is definitely doing
something different and I know that the
music I make is not you know
straightforward hip-hop it's not kind of
like for everybody so I think it the
people that like it hopefully you know
liked it a lot and then some people they
just probably don't get it and that's
fine
I expect that it's a good you have a
really good element of like storytelling
in your app that I like when I listen to
it yeah like it it it's weird because
I'm listening and it like takes me back
it's like suburbs yeah and like it like
I can I can see the things in the story
happen the exact same things happening
to me you know six seventh grade eighth
grade though yeah oh yeah it's like
you're very good at element of
storytelling thanks yeah yeah it's so
visual like that's just how I write is
like just kind of trying to describe an
image that I'm seeing
yeah I was gonna say I actually wrote
down a note because I was listening to
music and taking notes and stuff that I
wanted to discuss with you and one of
the things that I love about your music
just going hand-in-hand with that is
that it is so relatable and yet it's so
personal at the same time you know like
people like I listen to it as well and I
get these flashbacks and memories but
the verses that you are rapping they're
also so personal to you so I'm wondering
like how how do you think that happens
like finding that perfect balance
between being personal yet also in a
weird way Universal it's both at the
same time that's awesome I mean I think
of it as that just sort of the life
experiences that I've had are probably
pretty universal you know that's always
how I've thought of it like when people
say they relate like to me it's like
personal documentation music like that's
always like it's like a journal or a
diary kind of thing like whatever but I
think just the stuff I've gone through
is probably fairly similar to what
people have gone through like I don't
have I don't think I had some crazy
extreme upbringing in any direction I
think it's the experiences that I went
through are probably pretty normal and
that I go through now but I just don't
feel like people describe them in music
often enough so that's like kind of what
I try to set out to do is talk about
those things that they might seem
ordinary but I think they're important
to shed light on and talk about and
mm-hmm
you know other people relate to them too
yeah I think too like because it's rap
and not other music like if you were
doing like a pop song or like you know
like a country song or whatever you
don't have all of that available space
to be able to talk in that length like
there's a conversational element yeah
there's a really the amount of words
that you're just you know naturally in
it being a rap song able to throw in
there allows it to be super
conversational and super personal but
you know still having the overlying
theme of what most music has like it's a
love song or it's like a song about
family or it's a song but you just have
a ton of context well I think that's why
I'm drawn to rap is because it allows me
to actually talk
like so much more you know it's like
that to me it's the closest genre to
like writing like long-form writing you
know that's sort of how I think of it
short of doing there's some like spokes
gonna say it's like a cousin of spoken
words I'm one step away from spoken word
for sure definitely yeah for sure I
watched the video that you sent over the
teaser for the album which was really
beautiful I mean that along with to
break some ice video that's the manag
refers stunning work Brian yeah he's
Brian is crazy it's his loyal so Brian's
the director of both those I'm gonna his
name's Brian Petros and he's basically
he is gonna be doing like all the
visuals for the album and we've done a
lot of them so far like I can show you
so much more yeah the thumb so that
teaser like he shot handheld on his
camera and everything and then break
some ice we got like a big team together
to do it but Brian and me met like
probably three four years ago and he
just loved the music and he's like dude
I really think I can bring it to life
visually and I like didn't I didn't know
like what he was going for first like I
just didn't I had never had that type of
experience with a director you know he
was kind of always like more of a sort
of work-for-hire kind of thing and
you're just trying to get a visual up to
support your song whatever but Brian was
just like this is like three four years
ago for my EP there's more to life in
2015 he was like man let me just make a
little teaser for it like one minute
long type of thing and then this one
minute teaser became this like sort of
bigger project and we threw everything
into it and it became very cinematic and
that's that there's more to life trailer
that's on YouTube in them for break some
ice in the new album we wanted to like
take that concept and do it for the
whole album and try to try to really
represent everything is that what's
happening are you doing videos for all
the songs pretty much for all of them
yeah wow that's really like they'll be
at least they'll be at least some visual
for every song so yeah trying to think
of how many we've done so far but
definitely like somewhere like five six
seven
or something already mm-hmm and they're
all different like they're not all like
huge productions some are just a
one-shot thing like whatever but we do
want to try to cover I think that's
gonna be such a fun project for somebody
with a camera to work on with do with
your content because what we're saying
is so visual yeah it's gotta be really
fun
I think Brian brings it to life in this
really interesting way like I don't know
I it it's funny because like my writing
is so visual but it's not easy for me to
come up with video ideas mm-hmm
I don't know why it's just always been a
little hard for me but Brian does it in
a way that I think it's nice because it
complements the words but it's not so on
the nose that it's like identically what
I'm saying
yeah just enough of a compliment that
the videos have like they have their own
life too outside of the words you know
what I mean yeah does he do the the
editing as well yeah yeah actually
editing is really good especially for
the the teaser for the album Thanks he's
cutting in and out of things was really
cool yeah he's he's cool he's definitely
the real deal yeah he's the man super
talented guy in the teaser you say on
that your music is like allowing it
allows people to access that world
inside your head do you feel like what
he's capturing mimics that like what
you're seeing or what is that what does
that world look like do you know what
I'm talking about when you say that in
the teaser yeah definitely that's like
the world of my music and lyrics and
this kind of world where I want
everything to be the way that I
visualize it in either something that
I'm dreaming up for the future or how I
kind of wish my past could have been
you're kind of like idealized version of
your your world that's like where I try
to write my music and yeah I would say
Brian is definitely tapping into that
for sure
I mean he's the he's the first person
that I feel like he just has these ideas
without me and him even really needing
to talk about it that matches up
perfectly and I don't know it's cool
like I hear people say stuff like that
and sometimes like you're just like oh
whatever but you know they're just
saying that but it really feels
with Brian like there have been some
just crazy kind of coincidence things
that he'll send me like I'll give you
guys an example so you know what I'm
saying like he wanted to do this one
video of her song that's gonna be on the
album and he's like dude this Bob Dylan
photo of him in New York City really
inspires me I want to like recreate this
like this location whatever this vibe
and that was a photo that I had like as
my desktop background mmm I just love
this photo and like me and him have
never talked about Bob Dylan likes just
so random so I think we're just kind of
creatively on the same page and we
probably both just view my music very
similarly you know yeah which is I don't
know I don't feel like everyone like
totally gets my music so I do think that
that's a that's like a nice unique thing
I'm very lucky to have him on board
yeah for sure it's gonna be kind of a
nerve-wracking thing collabing
especially in that way because it's like
this is your child all right this is
your creative child that you're having
all this impress someone else yeah
there's definitely less that goes into
that yeah for sure definitely a job so
it's like yeah it's been great so far
yeah it's been awesome like it's super
fun and super motivating to make the
videos and just to think about being
able to share that much more stuff with
people because I've always kind of laid
low for a few years whatever so know
like now finally I have a lot of stuff
to share yeah what were you doing while
you were laying low I'm just you know
all sorts of things like definitely
writing ya know kind of obsessing over
the lyrics and the songs and what to do
next and what to say and the songs and
all that stuff like just overthinking it
all way too much and then I'm also just
moving moving back to the city yes I
think that took up time so yeah so those
are like probably the two main things
yeah like other just all you know all
sorts of life stuff like my grandpa
passing away while I was living upstate
living back home that was like a big
thing that I thinking in hindsight kind
of took up a lot of my energy more than
I realized at the time yeah actually I
want to get into that a little bit if
you're comfortable yeah
so when did that take place because I
know
so you're releasing or you release the
song morn and it's really there there's
a weight to that song it's like a very
happy and emotional song um and you
definitely get that feeling of mourning
through that song I think where I did so
I want to dig into what that experience
was like and the the experience of
losing somebody so close to you but also
the experience of writing about it in
such a vivid way yeah so you want to
walk us through that yeah definitely so
what I kind of hinted at it on there's
more to life the EP like that he was
sick at the time so that was like 2015
and he had cancer and I you you might
have even met him at some point but he's
like a small-town printer is from
Washington like very you know
irish-catholic went to church everyday
type of person and really gave like so
much back to that community so he was
definitely my grandpa but I kind of knew
him in this unique sort of way where
it's like he's my grandpa but he's also
kind of his local figure so I think
while he was sick it was a it was just
like a kind of crazy turbulent time that
went on for like a year while I was
living at home at my mom's house which
is like ten minutes from where my
grandparents live so we'd be sort of
driving back and forth and then also
somebody else in my family had cancer at
the same time so it's like a lot of it's
like a lot of like heavy cancer stuff
going on all the time and like medical
equipment in the house like whatever so
at the time I was like oh you know aware
of it but it's weird when you're in a
situation like that like you don't
process it yeah like you don't really
process it and you don't know what to
think and you sort of you're thinking
more in the moment of like each day how
it's affecting you but I don't know so I
knew a hundred percent it was something
like I wanted to write about on the new
music I just didn't know how and I tried
in all these different demos to kind of
like fit it in like as like oh maybe
it'll just be the second verse just
about him whatever and then finally I
was like
let me just do a full song about this
and so I wanted it to be definitely
about him but I also wanted it to be
about the concept of just losing your
first grandparent cuz all my other
grandparents are still alive mm-hmm
god bless so that was kind of like what
I was thinking that's something you know
everyone experiences and I never really
hear anybody rapper sing about it no but
writing it like did it offer some sort
of closure or like healing with I guess
just coping with I don't know you know
losing a grandparent it's an interesting
question um I I guess it sort of did but
I feel like maybe I'm gonna get that
through like just now that the you know
having the song out and kind of playing
it live like through that process a bit
more to me it's like a little bit of
like documenting it like that's what it
feels like like it's an important part
to me of my of what's happened to me
over the last few years so I want to
make sure it's documented and written
down that kind of thing so maybe that's
my way of like getting closure on it
mm-hmm
yeah yeah like I feel like I've kind of
said what I need to say about it in the
music so I feel good about that
and it's definitely yeah I mean people
will hear but it's definitely like a
theme on the album - okay cool yeah it's
a beautiful song man
thanks man I'd really enjoy listening to
it and the live version as well both of
them are great thanks it was like
different in a you know songwriting
sense cuz I just did it all on keyboard
mm-hmm and that was that's the first
song I've like composed it all
throughout on keys like it's not just
like the verses will be this melody that
I write and then you loop it it's like
kind of progresses as it goes on and I
tried to push myself to like okay if
this lyric has this let me like throw a
minor chord in there that's not in the
first verse but makes sense here type of
thing hmm and I mean you could hear it
musically too but I try to like play
outside the key and like throw in some
I'm small enough yeah just to give it a
different emotion you know yeah yeah
definitely and the emotion I mean
I I thought that the emotions sort of
does change throughout the song like
when the versus and it goes into the
female verses or the female vocals in
the chorus I guess yeah which yeah
there's there's sort of a lightness to
the chorus I think of what is that
moment that they're singing about I
think it's about looking back on its
like years later after you've lost
somebody and you're looking back
thinking like wow we spend so much time
mourning and grieving over this so it's
sort of like the opposite of what the
verses are in a way yeah it feels that
way yeah that's yeah and I I don't know
that's just what felt natural to me like
it's your mourning the loss of someone
you miss them you know it's so sad
whenever you lose somebody but you're
also like the whole experience takes a
lot I think from everyone like it is a
lot of your like energy your time like
when if you guys you know I've ever lost
a family member you know like everything
that goes into it like driving to
people's houses and getting like the
eulogy ready and the wake in the funeral
and like the it's just a crazy
experience and I feel like that I wanted
to capture that element of it too cuz
that was a lot of what I experienced I
felt like none of us in my family even
had time to actually grieve or to like
feel the pain as much because we were so
caught up in like the chaos of it all
and the chaos of like the hospital
and whatever so yeah yeah maybe that's
why there's like that that other that
others not to the emotion I totally get
that I actually just lost my grandfather
like two months ago
sorry I know yeah thank you but I wasn't
as close to him which was interesting
when I was listening to this song
he lived in Florida and my whole life he
didn't really like we didn't really
connect that much but listen to the song
it was it was weird because I was I was
listening to it but I was and I knew
that you know I was honestly obviously
thinking of my own grandfather that had
just passed away but might be images
that were coming into my head the way
that you were talking about it was my
other grandfather who I actually have
here who I haven't lost who is
around my entire life so that was
resting yeah it was a really weird thing
I was like I I was thinking of one but
then I had the image of the other like
and you're talking about the Hunchback
and everything in the car and I was like
oh I have that image but I'm thinking
you know I feel I almost feel bad for
thinking of the other grandfather that
way yeah I don't think you should feel
bad about that but maybe that's a good
thing because then you it's like I guess
just a reminder or whatever does know
yeah but appreciate kind of thing I'll
have to feel that with my other
grandparents too and really yeah yeah I
mean I guess everyone has that kind of
experience you know the parents are
close to and the grandparents that
they're not but I haven't what the the
ug thing though cuz that's so true like
I like I said I wasn't that close to him
but my dad was obviously super close to
his own father and when everything
happened like its total chaos
yeah like and I'm talking like family
members ended up going at each other
like wives of people get involved or
husbands of people that aren't even part
of the family get involved and start
like it's this crazy time period and
nobody has any time to grieve yeah you
don't have time to Mel's like yeah so
that's what I was going for with like
mourn all the time we've killed kind of
thing like you just you spent so much
time in the chaos of it yeah that sort
of emotion
yeah for sure I'm glad you've liked
experienced that too with the chaos of
it all yeah it was crazy it's like it's
chaotic nobody ends up crying until the
funeral happens and then all of a sudden
it's like you like realize what
everything is culminated - yeah as a
whole it's like this huge weight you
know like my family said like I haven't
seen my dancing my dad cry at all and
then as soon as he like got up there to
start delivering the eulogy it was like
boom him and his brother just like
that's like waterworks going it's like
yeah well that cuz it's like the final
final realization everything else has
been kind of getting this whole thing
ready getting the you know getting the
the the gravesite ready get you know
calling the church and all this type of
stuff and you're not really thinking
about what the actual thing that you're
doing is right and it's like yeah you're
putting someone to rest like it's a big
it's a big event deaf no and you didn't
you captured that pretty pretty well in
the song thanks man yeah for sure yeah
and I all my grandparents were still
alive so if and had to experience that
but I don't know I grew up with my
grandparents so that will be an
interesting thing when it happens like
they raised me at my father's house yeah
so yeah yeah I don't know it's actually
it's weird because having not lost a
grandparent it's an experience that I
actually cannot even imagine you know
it's a weird thing like I don't I don't
know I can't even put myself there
because it just seems so surreal to
think of somebody being gone like that
yeah yeah definitely yeah well I'm sorry
about that man
yeah yeah no I appreciate it man rest in
peace yeah yeah absolutely and I mean
it's a fantastic way to keep a piece of
them alive you know forever but outside
of that song what uh what is your
writing process usually look like this
is some I love talking to people about
this because I know everybody has their
own creative process that they go
through when they're formulating
whatever they do well you're the writer
musician or anything really has like
their own rituals and stuff like that so
I'm curious as to what yours is
cuz I'm a writer myself and I don't
think I've quite gotten mine down
because it changes a lot it seems like
it's determined on the day you know like
so even if I do the same ritual that I
know works for me some days it's like
I'm just not in that mood that day or
like I'm I'm feeling particularly
anxious or something it's not gonna
happen
mm-hm so I don't know I don't I would
like to get a ritual down it's like okay
like if I just do these things and what
the steps 1 through 4 that I'll be able
to write I've always thought that to
like I wish I had that kind of like
routine thing yeah anytime I've tried to
replicate the different way that I've
done it it just doesn't work like that
I've never been able to be like okay I
made this one song this way so I'm gonna
do that identical thing right yeah it
always ends up as something else and I'm
like still get still getting comfortable
with that idea that like it's gonna be
different every time cuz exactly what
you mean like I want that so bad it's
frustrating sometimes
is how I write a song yeah whatever but
I don't know I think it's just it's kind
of like that's just making any art like
you got to accept that it's like you
know I'm out a little bit differently
than your vision of it in a way and
that's that's sort of what makes it cool
and natural like if you could fully
fully control it would it make it like
as unique of a thing no and so just
because when you're when you are forcing
it like that and you're it's just one of
those days where it's not gonna happen
but you're like I'm gonna make it happen
it's terrible usually it's not like
that's the piece of paper you're
crumbling up for sure you know writing
like cuz I'm not like when I was writing
music it was very much like you could
have a day where you all of a sudden
would just come to you and you are
knocking on a song in like 20 or 30
minutes but then you could also have a
day where you're sitting pen and paper
with the guitar for like three hours I
could just want to get this chorus right
it's a it's just not gonna happen my
process is normally some through some
kind of just you know random stuff I'll
get like a line in my head or something
that I think of like let's say on like
the subway here that sort of experience
and that that line or a few lines will
just stick with me for a long time and
I'll usually write them into like a poem
or whatever play it on it on the guitar
just kind of like ruminate on these
lines that are special to me and then
eventually Nico will send me a beat that
feels right and I'll kind of fit the
line I'll like find a beat that sort of
matches up with that line and then fill
in all the blanks of like okay now I
could make this so they'll send you a
beat after reading the line or he just
sends you be okay he'll just send he's
just like so creative yeah doing this
thing yeah so like the when I say these
lines it's like let's just say I have do
you have any in your phone right now
that you can like read yeah like so many
like I have like I have a place where I
just post all sort of all sorts of poems
it's like just like a private behind
page that nobody reads about me but it's
like online kind of like school archive
and so I'll always like go on there and
just see what fits and then I'll just
play on guitar and keyboard too and try
to just find something that matches up
so then I'll write the rest of the song
like new
Conny in the moment but a lot of it
these lines are like things I thought of
years ago like there's definitely stuff
in mourn like that too or like the
chorus line like mourn all the time
we've killed like I've definitely
written that in like ten other demos
than never came out yes it's kind of
like crazy like ever yeah yeah I'm sure
I've had the same thing and he knows it
too I will go and rewrite the same songs
I'm 18 I'm still reworking where I'm
taking the lyrics from that song but now
putting it with this new music and
trying to figure out what that puzzle is
for that piece of content right it takes
a while to get to that that's what makes
it good satisfaction this it makes it
good because if you just do it one done
it just it's good to a point because
there's all at least for me a flaw of
mine it's like it's not it's never good
enough which is why I when I should
whatever it was like six years without
releasing one song because I'm just like
I'm not satisfied with it I just
released a song last summer it was the
first time I had released a song since
my freshman year of college so about
five or six years Wow yeah but it's
because I knelt it's just hard for me to
get to a place of like I approve of this
like my stamp of approval to put it out
there something that helps me with that
is writing it in a project like giving
in the context of like writing it in
sort of within the theme of an album or
something like that because then you're
like okay this song this is what will
make it feel right you know when I'm
always just kind of doing like one and
done type of songs that's never really
felt totally right for me but like
here's a line for example yeah yeah this
is gonna end up in some future song like
two years out of the year when we broke
into each other's lives
it was vandalism and when we killed the
best parts of our time it was red-handed
bloody murder is something I definitely
I'm gonna fit in there keep it's funny
because he read that I'm like yeah that
sounds like a Dilla no one really does
yeah those like because because you have
lines like that too that you repeat
throughout your songs right like you
have certain lines that reoccur it's so
cool man like your music has really
lifts like a document of your life
so like every time one of those lines is
repeated it's like Oh Dylan's tapping
back into that memory or whatever that
represents to him that's a lot of people
do that if you want to do it really
intentionally you know somebody asked me
about it once um this guy Joey who he's
got to keep your friends close tattoo on
his arm that I threw out for him you
know that's awesome he I remember he
asked me about it on like a QA I did
online and and it just stuck with me his
question like he was like oh when you do
that is there like a real purpose of
what you're tying together kind of thing
and there definitely is like I try to
like not do it for no reason you know
yeah yeah it's not just lines like
sometimes they'll even even be like a
piano part that'll just show up in ya
song yeah look in the same way just like
a reoccurs first that's cool and also
names you you drop names in your songs
yeah of people they're all just the real
people that I mean you know a lot of
them ya know I know
well I know I don't like shadows like I
know less scarce and yes and a lot of
your music I always love when artists do
that
I think it's cool I love I love hearing
like whether it's a girl's name our guys
name just wondering what the
relationship is because you love hearing
a piece of their life which is why isn't
they the music is so cool is because
it's like you're getting a piece of like
their life so like when you hear someone
use an actual name it's like oh like
they know that you can almost hear their
voice but it's like they're characters
though yeah I do think a lot about that
cuz like me and Molly don't talk anymore
like we haven't talked in years uh she
is who I dated like all of high school
basically was like my high school so
Molly yeah okay yeah yeah yeah yeah you
definitely I know her yeah I thought you
said Maile no no okay um so it's funny
because yeah it is like she's just sort
of a character in a way um but I don't
know it's it all kind of gets like
blurred together at some point
yeah who are the who are the other
people that occur often in your music
like what how's that definitely ghost
yeah definitely Molly there's also some
other themes are like having roses like
I got roses
so I need a bid farewell like not some
senioritis and the best figures are
lives um and then also on the new stuff
there's gonna be someone named Annie
that I mentioned a lot yeah notice that
my project keep your friends close was
pretty much about her and on the new
album look I just didn't really say her
by name I'd keep your friends close but
the new album talks a lot about that too
yeah and what's your relationship with
her so we dated a few years back a while
back and it was this kind of like
cross-country long-distance relationship
um well she was West Coast
yeah like Midwest west coast um and it's
been an interesting thing for me because
that was definitely like the I don't
know it's kind of like the most intense
relationship I've ever had and it's one
that I think I can just kind of write
about indefinitely and it's been a
little hard for me over the years to
cope with just like letting it go and
moving on from it it sort of feels like
this death of my childhood kind of thing
like when we broke up which was during
college so yeah I don't know it's kind
of like this just like losing your first
grandparent to me that's like a symbolic
thing this feels like it's like you're
losing your first love type of thing
yeah I totally get that that's that's
kind of like what she represents to me
yeah absolutely
I I do at least in my head I don't write
it write about it and my music the same
way that you do but I also when I'm
thinking back on my life it's like so
you know when you're learning about
history and it's like oh this was the
golden ages like this was the Middle
Ages like all of that like I break my
life into stages like that but it's
determined by the people in my life at
the time a lot of the time it is who I'm
dating just cuz that's you know that's
the closest relationship that you have
with somebody
mm-hmm but it's fascinating yeah yeah
like I define these periods in my life
based on my relationships at the time
yeah and it's weird yeah and don't you
think like the first one or the first
kind of like big one there's like just
some magic to it like it's so yeah yeah
man talked about this all the time we
went into college with girlfriends yeah
and and like like
significant light they're like both like
year like two is sheer right like we
were like yeah but we were young and
yeah yeah but it is it is like that man
it's really is it like when we are let's
say you know 40 years from now right
when we're like in our kind of old age
or you know 40 50 60 years like we're
still gonna remember these people and
like the impact they had on us like kind
of crazy yeah it's crazy to think that
like our grandparents probably have
those people somewhere in their memory -
yeah yeah take some time to like you're
absolutely right there is something
magical about those relationships there
was a period of time where I felt like
oh man does that exist in adulthood you
know like does that can that magic be
found in adulthood or is it something
that just it seems like lust is an
emotion you feel way more frequently
when you're young you know like lust
over a place or romanticizing things
like your Amanda sized things more
frequently when you're young because you
have age thing you know it's like it's
okay it's like when you move out of your
child at home it's like you have like
that that want for that child diploma
it's just because you haven't
experienced other in other places you
know it's cuz that's the only one but
once you go to another home within a
week you'll be fine yeah I don't know
it's I go through phases I go through
phases where things seem more vibrant
and then less vibrant like when I moved
to New York like I was in like in love
with this city in a way where it
represented such a fairy tale to me like
a fairy tale lifestyle like my friends
in New York and my life in New York
after moving from Goshen you know it's
such a huge shift like dramatic shift
for those people listening in Dylan I
grew up in a small town upstate called
Goshen population 5,000 people people I
just think it's funny cuz like I don't
know people they here all were from a
few hours north of City like you don't
expect it to be as a removed as Goshen
is like yeah it's very well yeah that
happens really and I didn't realize that
growing up like I didn't realize that
till I moved to the city and then people
were like whoa where you're from there's
like just farms and cows walk
yeah there are still dirt roads and
there's places without cell phone
service and stuff like yeah it was just
normal to us and like you know everyone
in the town and yeah I'm gonna drive a
bit to get some yeah how you feel going
back there now like when you go back and
forth do you feel like cuz for me it's
kind of like I feel a bit out of place
when I go back to Goshen now I maybe
because I've just been living you know
in Manhattan in Brooklyn for eight years
now that it's not necessarily my home
anymore but just who I am I think who I
was there is quite different than Who I
am now here what's that like for you
it's interesting I think when I go back
there there's still something special
about it that feels like it gives me a
little insight into like who I was
growing up or something like that and
I'm always I don't know I I always am
like trying to kind of figure that out
like who exactly I was at this age
that's why like the story is so
interesting about me rapping over the
drums cuz like I just don't remember
that yeah and yeah I don't know it so
when I go back there it feels kind of
it's like filled with nostalgia like I'm
stepping into this world where I
remember driving around in my first car
like this old beat-up Honda Civic
talking on the phone to Annie it was in
Colorado at the time like these kind of
memories and like driving the seven
minutes from my mom's house to Nico's
house to work on music and work on
senioritis and like it's filled with all
that stuff and it's crazy but there's
also like a lot of other stuff there too
like you're saying like the area has
changed a lot it's definitely not the
exact place that we grew up in it's a
little bit less rural as time goes on
and yeah like of course me now like I
want to be doing music stuff all day and
like you it's hard to do that when
you're in a small town and there's not
there's only like you know
so many creative people that are there I
remember being so jealous of like kids
in Warwick I just felt like they had
such a better scene for music right oh
my god you know high school like who
made music not many people only a couple
of us really like it's kind of that's
kind of crazy that there was only a
few of us and nobody really had amazing
equipment or anything like that like I
all you know friends I've met over the
last few years like people in their high
school who had real bands and courting
stuff and they knew how to like play
avenge I was saying we're in our small
town bubble up there yeah we really were
yeah because I remember listening to get
Warwick's like a town that was like 20
minutes we play together we play Tuscan
okay I played like a handful of times
you did - I went to your shows they're
cool yeah that was that was the place
it's all open mics there too ya know if
you ever did those I don't maybe I can't
remember like Wednesday or Thursday
night I probably I did a handful of open
mics around like Orange County but yeah
it was always a struggle to do music
there and I felt I felt really insecure
about doing music because of that like I
felt like ill-equipped to play because I
just felt like other people had more
equipment and had just one following or
for sure but it was sort of beautiful in
a way like now that I'm like fully just
doing music all the time and I have a
lot of friends who are artists and stuff
there's something beautiful about just
doing it with no resources like yeah
small town like playing out an open mic
you make like 10 bucks cash and you just
keep like I would keep it in a plastic
bag in my room and that was like the
money I saved up and um to then pay to
record like yeah it was really like that
and there's something so cool about that
especially because it just makes it
about the art at the end of the day like
yours it's every little thing is so
precious you know yeah now there's like
so many people you just record a song in
like two minutes and upload it yeah yeah
it's crazy how like the music industry
has shifted during our lifetime I mean
just from the time that we were in high
school 13 14 where it was like if you're
not on MySpace you're not playing music
really like you're not you're nobody
and now myspace is dead and then I was
like well if you're not on iTunes you
nobody now iTunes it's kind of dead yeah
now we have spotify and other streaming
services like Apple music yeah I was
just thinking about that yeah here today
how myspace was like people kind of tend
to talk about social media like it's
such a new thing but like to me myspace
was pretty similar to like what goes on
I was like at first there were people
who were really cool on MySpace and you
would just be so envious of like oh man
I remember messaging like artists we
like friends now who I met through
MySpace and people who follow my music
on MySpace when I was in like ninth
grade yeah totally I remember listen to
your music on MySpace that was where
yeah yeah when I'd record my first EP
was up on MySpace yeah yeah that died
quick too it was like it was so hard
yeah came out it was like yeah the whole
thing just went down well if Facebook
came out like oh seven oh eight a lot of
some people really started using it yeah
I'm like bio nine I think like everyone
was on Facebook yeah nobody was on
myspace yeah and they tried making a
comeback too we went through the MySpace
um remember we perform for them because
they were revamping it as a music yeah
they were looking for artists to I guess
promoting their initial launch yeah we
went to audition for them I mean I
remember that so funny yeah and then it
just it because Justin Timberlake bought
it yeah he did yeah I don't even know if
they got it off the ground like I think
we signed up for it and everything I
don't even know that they never know
what do you guys think of Spotify like
do you mostly listen to music on there I
did I really liked it
but I'll tell you something about I
don't love is that I feel like it is so
easy to just listen to like thirty
seconds of a song then move on mm-hmm
and I think getting kinda encourages and
of course iTunes already did this before
but it sort of encourages just listening
to like single songs at a time rather
than really diving in an album and you
can see the way artists like they have
so much music coming out nowadays that
it's kind of it's too much sometimes
like some of my favorite artists now put
out too much music and those always
singles and the way Spotify works I
actually message them once
about something similar to this because
I didn't like the way that the layout of
the app was what I really message so not
even getting you because it was like I
can't save my music by album or by like
artists like it's a we I I don't know if
they've changed the absence yeah I don't
even remember honestly what I was
complaining about but I complained about
that's a it was it was just a way that
you download it like you can't download
I don't remember but it had something to
do with like you you're encouraged to
just listen to single songs you're not
really encouraged to like listen to an
album yeah you know and music has always
been like that like just like oh the top
you know the top hit you're never gonna
listen to the you know the rest of their
album but yeah it's important it's like
the good stuff isn't the rest of the
album yeah it's not necessarily releases
full-out like they do but mmm big
artists these days just like they're
dropping singles every two or three
months right
yeah where you have Drake who drops
purposely drops like a 24 track 2 disc
thing because he knows people are just
gonna stream quickly through it yeah
broke the record right like what I don't
know what I'm trying to do with this
album is just do what's just best for
the music and just about all that stuff
and I've never really given into that
stuff and I'm very like thankful I
haven't yeah but there are so many
people who are like oh man you got a you
know you got to release music every week
whatever like yeah but it's just that's
not what makes sense for like my music I
think it takes me a long time to get my
music to feel right and to feel like I'm
worth it to release just like you were
saying about yours and I think that's
that's good though you're making
anything you've all tell to like you
make your music for like because people
listen on Spotify landrush just not you
can tell a music is cheap you know like
you can tell like when you listen to a
song it's like oh my god the amount of
production first of all that went into
it it's even though it's like expensive
it's cheap because there was no real
artistry but from the artists going into
that song when you have to sit and
cultivate a song over like three months
and you know you're putting the lyrics
like you guys are talking about putting
lyrics and with this music and it's like
no I don't like what that music I put it
in this music that makes like a really
good song like you're you're really
putting the
you know the work in the art or as
otherwise it's like there's not really
any work in that like definitely there's
like 20 different people so just like
trends like you're always gonna have
these trends you know it's the same way
there's like trends and musical styles
and trends and hip-hop and trends in
folk music whatever and you got to just
like do your own thing I think and like
be yourself and not know give that stuff
too much credence yeah I don't even know
what the current trend is right now with
me because I know when I the last time I
paid attention to like trends and music
was like Mumford & Sons like when like
Mumford & Sons was big and everybody
sounded like like they had a banjo and
the kick yeah I mean like that was every
song it was like kick kick kick
banjo solo for like four years that was
every new band that came in yeah and I
don't know after that I think the last
time I paid attention was when Skrillex
became like this enormous thing top 40
artists now like Drake obviously ed
Sheeran yeah yeah sure I'd liked him
more Killers six years ago the killer's
really I think that song is still in the
top 40 mr. Brightside yeah I think so
great song who are you listening to
right now I listen to all sorts of
different stuff the last couple years
I've been getting really into more
traditional songwriters okay
John Prine Townes Van Zandt like I don't
know if you guys listen to N in them but
just their lyrics and their storytelling
is like unbelievable so I've really been
going down that rabbit hole like this
guy Warren Zevon is so cool is this kind
of like a little bit lesser-known but I
don't know like our parents would
definitely know who he is
um you know Joni Mitchell that kind of
stuff so been just really getting into
that and then I listened to a ton of
alternative hip hop stuff like Astro
Nautilus buck 65 this guy that I'm
friends with named Chesky who's amazing
all sorts of different stuff like that
and then I loved some mainstream stuff
too like you know Jay Cole mm-hmm
whatever so
always kind of trying to find the
something else but I would say it's
always just like the best of lyrics is
what um yeah he's looking for really
yeah but you're you're a person that
like actively tries to find new music as
of the last couple months I've been
doing it again kind of but I would say
during the making of the album I listen
to just a lot of songwriters yeah a lot
of like kind of classic classic
songwriters who have great lyrics and to
me it's more about just the emotion of
it like I don't know that's just kind of
what I was feeling
yeah time yeah yeah they were like a
select there's a handful of songwriters
in my head that the emotion that they
can convey usually guys with just like a
guitar and singing it's just I'm always
baffled me like how do you do that they
could be a simple song too
what's the way it all comes together
mm-hmm it's yeah definitely I don't
think having great lyrics necessarily
means needs to mean like super
complicated yeah and where do is it's
more of just is the song really special
yeah absolutely
can you hear the emotion behind the
voice - yeah yeah yeah yeah like artists
like that for me are like um Damien Rice
when Hansard those guys like stand out
to me in my head is like some of the at
least to me some of the greatest
songwriters I saw Damien live any no
really that's where it was at I think it
was Radio City Music Hall or amazing it
was either there or a different theater
but it was really cool I was absolutely
blown away it was just pretty much just
him for most of the show yeah he was
unbelievable yeah that guy can invoke
such emotion at me like talking about a
guy who can sing about like sad
relatable things like he's so sad yeah
well he's so cool cuz he's someone who
he just disappeared for so long yeah and
yeah he was like one of the biggest
artists in Ireland ever but he just
didn't care like it felt to me like I'm
sure he had all sorts of people wanting
him to
music but he just did it when it was
right for him yeah came back and made
this album that was just all about his
relationship and I don't know that was
so cool to me like he I've always loved
him because he was in a relationship
with I can't remember her name right now
but the singer he's smoking yeah at Lisa
Hannigan yeah yeah that's correct I
wanted to for a while I was taking a
screenwriting class in college I wanted
to write a screenplay about the
relationship like it's fascinating to me
like they got huge like they they had
been playing together and I'm pretty
sure he was homeless I'm pretty sure he
was like did not have a place to live
and they're performing like on the
street then they got huge and then they
had like a horrible breakup and he just
disappeared he like moved to like a farm
on Spain for like ten years and then he
came back like that's a movie waiting to
happen
that's so weird yeah it's crazy yeah
yeah he's one of a con that guy
something else villagers is really cool
if you like Irish song right yeah yeah I
do like Irish sonorous they're great
yeah I just read a book fine Irish
author the book is called the young
skins it's really cool it's like all
these different essays actually could
see you really digging it and it's these
different sort of connected essays and
just the way this guy writes is like
crazy poetic his name's Colin Barrett
and I know very cool descriptions of
sort of small-town Irish life and it
kinda reminds me of Goshen in a way
which is yeah yeah that's cool I learned
this very small town like they have that
small-town vibe I've always heard like
you gotta go to Galway cuz I'm from
Boston so everyone always says you got
to go to Galway because just like Boston
like that everything around there is
like horses cows very small town very
rural yeah I don't do it Ireland so
beautiful yeah I'm in the heartland but
I've been to England and it's like that
yes at least outside of like from London
and stuff like that right your brother
was just in England right yeah he was
living over in London I actually went to
visit him back in December last year
yeah that's cool he's not living there
anymore no you're right he said now
listen like right next yeah yeah so you
were saying earlier you guys get
together in jam now yeah yeah we do yeah
that's not something that's happened
since you were young no we we've always
kind of done it but we've never it's
never been organized it's still not
organized that's just like it'll kind of
come knock on my door type of thing but
when I was in seventh and eighth grade
he used to play in a bunch of bands and
they had a basement kind of like this
one we're recording in and they would
all just be jamming like James
Wellington and Matt Wellington students
and I would go over and just rap while
they were playing and that was some
alike
I remember getting ready for those
practices I would be like oh man I got a
write a full song so I have something to
to rap over top of their parts and those
were like some of my earliest memories
of actually writing music they would
just be on like loose leaf paper folded
up and I was just right I didn't
understand structure anything you know
yeah and they weren't playing with
structure play and I would just like
grab a microphone and they'd just be
like okay do something and I couldn't
sing it also is just like rapping that's
awesome did you feel like a little
brother like going into that room oh
yeah yeah totally I never never really
felt never really felt like I was like
one of them yeah definitely definitely a
little brother kind of vibe yeah well
you're a middle child yep middle child
yeah you think that's affected you I
have like endless middle child theories
yeah yeah we both are yeah um I don't
know I've never I've never thought too
much or figured out too much about how
exactly it's affected me but I'm sure
I'm sure there's there's a lot to it
yeah what do you think so for middle
children and uh this is like obviously
an exaggeration but based on my
experience from talking to other middle
children as well it seems like like it's
the oldest so it's like the firstborn
there's like that's sentimental the
parents it's the first child and like
whatever they have you and then they're
like but we're not done yet because
we're not quite satisfied yet so then
they have the youngest and then they're
the baby so you have the sentimental
first child and you have the baby who
needs to be cared for because they're
the baby
all right then obviously that's just
like a very
general way to express it but because of
that I feel like there is a certain type
of attention that is given less to
middle children and because of that
middle children tend to be like or are
more likely to be an outsider or have
their own path or rather are forced to
stand on their own two feet earlier than
the other two children at least if it's
three children that's my experience I
can see that for sure I mean my brothers
were always like sharing a room and
always kind of teaming up on me with you
know fighting and stuff in the house so
yeah definitely yeah because I think the
baby also looks at like the oldest as
well and like outliers
right yeah that's the Alpha yeah that's
a great way to put it he wants to be
like the little buddy of the of the
oldest yeah so now you think yeah you
got to teaming up on you yeah so it's
not like a for me at least like it's not
like a bad thing it's not like a neglect
thing it's more so just like you can
handle this just like go and take care
of it and like that's how I've always
felt like I was the first one to move
out I was the first one to graduate and
I I've traveled you know to different
countries and stuff my brother's haven't
really done that and I don't know I'm
just spelled thing yeah there's
definitely a difference there is there's
a pretty evident difference when you put
us next to each other especially with
Andrew a little bit a little bit so do
you feel like you and your older brother
I'm like who do you relate to more
well me and my older brother are super
close and we're also closer in age than
my younger brother so I think that's
probably part of it and yeah we've
always kind of played instruments
together and I I looked up to him a lot
when I was younger and he was playing in
bands and everything like I was saying
but also even in high school time and he
would play it a lot of hardcore shows
and punk rock shows he was in although
that kind of scene
and I would just go to those shows and
really admire like you know that whole
crowd and it's just like little brother
looking up to them type of thing yeah
but I remember like rapping out there
sound checks of those shows and like
freestyling outside of the venue yeah
like it's so cool all that stuff and it
it was so cool to me at the time yes
like oh man this is like that wasn't
that was like best night of my life that
way that's you up you know I that's like
a that's like really cool I wish I had
an older sibling because I would love to
have yeah yeah yeah well don't like you
haven't been the oldest yeah it's like
it's like being the middle of to see you
in your system yeah so it's like being
the middle child except they don't
really give you that like firstborn type
of just like she's the baby so whatever
you know she says take care so yeah you
gotta take care yourself yeah
that's whatever yeah I was independent
anyway but yeah yeah it's fine I can't
imagine having a sister just having two
brothers it's just like such a boys club
yeah that's why I'm saying it's like
everyone I knew like my dad was always
like it cuz I played sports and
everything but his excuse for me sucking
at sports is I was like dog yeah well he
has an older brother that he can you
know I look up to it everything I'm like
why didn't you give me an older brother
dad go on I loved an older brother
depriving you of that yeah another thing
that you talk about that comes up a lot
in my writing too is having divorced
parents that's a fascinating thing to
discuss with people what is your
experience and that just as general as
possible like did you for me you know I
was quite young when my parents got
divorced I think I was 5 or 6 years old
and so there's not much sadness and I
actually think it enriched my experience
growing up I think it gave me it like
doubled the amount of experiences I had
and you know my parents lived in the
same town so it wasn't necessarily
inconvenient like I know it can be for
some families but so what is what is it
like for you I was around like 9 or 10
years old when it happened and I think
it definitely has impacted me a lot and
informed a lot of who I am
and I didn't realize that I think until
the last few years of my life like just
kind of like thinking back on it I think
it's weird once you're in your 20s you
start to sort of realize things about
your childhood that you're like wow that
you know that carried a lot of weight or
whatever but when you're young just like
you said it's just kind of it's just
your reality you just kind of make the
most of it so I do think it you know
impacted me a lot I was talking to like
my best friend about it because he has a
podcast and we had a similar
conversation and he was saying oh maybe
it's like your middle child you were
always you know going back and forth
between your parents houses and maybe
like you've always felt kind of
in-between with these different things
and maybe that's kind of what's always
pushing you to you know look for a sense
of home or that sort of thing so yeah I
definitely think it like it shows up a
lot am i writing I think it you kind of
like relate to each other when you meet
someone else who has divorced parents
like it's just this weird looks like an
understanding day kind of thing yeah
yeah yeah and you know everyone's
experience is different with it yeah
because it's I don't know it's just
different based on who all the people
are involved but yeah I think it
definitely informs my creativity a lot
yeah I think it probably encouraged me
to create my own world in my head where
I feel safe and I feel like you know I'm
kind of have this creative bubble mm-hmm
that sort of thing yeah when you say you
feel like you don't have or you said you
were having a conversation on another
podcast and they pointed out that maybe
that's why you're searching for a home
you feel like you don't have a home like
do you feel not at home in your
apartment in the East Village or it sort
of feels like home but I would say it
feels a little bit temporary
like I feel like I'm a little bit always
between things and looking for the next
the next place that's gonna like feel
totally right in New York City it does
feel that way in some ways but in some
ways it doesn't like I think it has
really made me want to step up and like
embrace my independence and
just kind of go for the things I want in
life and that kind of thing but it's
also very lonely living in the city yeah
and that's so it's weird it's like
that's the cliche about the city but I
found it to be very true and I don't
know so I sort of feel at home now I
would say I I do more now than I did
like over the last few years but I don't
know if I feel at home now as much as I
would like to or as much as I did maybe
when I was like a really young kid
mm-hmm yeah and I did move around a lot
kind of I mean it's all relative but to
me it felt like a lot you know live in
like a few different houses whatever I'm
sure yeah total ignorance yeah yeah it's
weird when you move around a lot you
like you you had mentioned earlier like
having a like a sentimental relationship
with your child at home I don't really
have that with the place because yeah if
like you said I moved around so much so
places apartments they don't do that for
me like I feel I don't have an
attachment to places and I think it's
because I moved from the house with my
parents into an apartment into this
other house with my mom into that house
and the whole time I was going back and
forth between my father's house right
and so that is your conditioned to it
yeah that's I think that's a consequence
of divorced parents for sure it's like
you don't have that sense of stability
within a place or in a place you don't
invest that in a place yeah but I don't
I think it's kind of a strengthen yes
like it's I think it gives you a sense
of resilience that you're able to bounce
around like you're I think that's part
of my attraction with music like I'm not
a I'm not afraid of of this lifestyle
not afraid of that gonna change and
you're not like I'd like like me like I
know I'm super attached to my job I'm
still my parents to live in my childhood
home yeah so like I like when I was a
kid when we got like an addition onto
the house yeah we me and my sister were
like I'm parents talking but all the
time they're outside like crying in
front of the home yeah well those
experiences it's like I just yeah I feel
like I went through him like so younger
right but I still like my parents taught
me that you know Sunday or probably and
I'm like no don't leave the child at
home yeah do it
I love that homes you lived in one house
like your whole life pretty much yeah
yes like it's so foreign I still go back
to like when I go home to Boston like I
sleep in my childhood bedroom well it's
really we it's it's weird when you're 25
yeah it's it's weird cuz like I don't I
like you like I don't feel at home when
I'm in New York like I Love New York but
I don't like whatever apartment and then
I'm not home in an apartment when I go
home to boss and it's like it almost
gives you like the sense of like oh like
oh I'm home it's like you've been on a
long journey and you like take off the
backpack like poof yeah yeah back yeah I
don't like today's later you got to put
it back on and go but I definitely feel
like more grounded you know that like
sense of grounded when you're out at a
home yes yeah that's that's a really
foreign thing to me yeah I go home now
you know and that's good you can get
grounded anywhere you know what that's
what I'm saying is like you can be
grounded like it's for me it's like I
have almost like a sense of unstability
until I'm at that guy that's just
something that I need to like work on
yeah being here but yeah it is it is a
strength you I aspire to like when I you
know when I'm fully grown up I'm I'm an
adult and I want to have a home like I
want to create one yeah it feels really
that feels really right yeah I don't
know that's definitely like something
that I yeah daydreaming about having
someday for sure yeah that is definitely
important like creating your space so
that it's something that is compatible
with who you are
prior to moving here with Keith we lived
in this shitty apartment like 20 minutes
that way and it was a terrible
neighborhood it was you know not and the
part was falling apart they were
homeless people sleeping in the hallway
like piece of the ceiling we're falling
in like it was terrible there were
bedbugs in the apartment next door we
were just like waiting every day for
when they were gonna get into our
apartment yeah horrible and when I was
there like my depression and anxiety was
amplified 100% amplified and then you
know when that lease was up we were like
you know it's a cheap place to live but
maybe we should invest in having a nice
environment to wake up in
they'll cost a little bit more money but
I think that it might be worth that
yeah and zero regrets oh yeah
signing a new lease to get into a place
where I can wake up in the morning and
be like okay right you you know yeah I
think it's definitely worth the
investment you know to create that space
for yourself
definitely yeah yeah what else
uh-huh how do we feel good yeah this was
great yeah yeah awesome talking cool man
I think I do think that we covered
everything that I wanted to ask you
about yeah I was gonna ask you what your
obsessions are cuz we talked about your
obsessions often yeah might be the last
question and then we got ahead find a
note to end it on yeah perfect
well I think it's just it's kind of
endless like I'm I'm a very obsessive
person for sure and I think writing is
one of them getting the words to sound
right and feel right over the music it's
like this just exhausting sort of
process I love this I don't know I guess
it's probably a strength in some sense
but music my music really needs to like
feel right to me in the end like all the
words need to feel right everything
needs to be good you know like kind of
the way I dreamed up the mix and all
this stuff and I'll just keep going
until until it's there so I think it's
it's a strength and a weakness
definitely writing but I think the
obsessions are also like thinking about
Annie and this old relationship that's
that's years and years out and I'm still
still trying to get over it still trying
to find closure with it mm that would
definitely be another one
so I'd say all the sort of like themes
all the kind of conflicts in my life I
ruminate on them so much but I try to
it's funny because that takes place in
the writing too and that's like where
I'm trying to get it out but I think it
ends up being it ends up being probably
mostly a strength because I can kind of
get something I'm really happy with and
as you said before maybe that gives me a
little bit of closure yeah like what are
your favorite things to do besides
writing um I love doing graphic design
stuff and you know taking photos editing
photos I mean to all that I love seeing
good live music like people I love and
just finding weird obscure music yeah
something I love as well and you know
seeing people I care about hanging out
with friends that kind of thing yeah
also give a lot of I hang out with a lot
of like my friends who are musicians and
we talk a lot about their music and that
kind of thing so I don't know I mean it
definitely like all sort of falls under
the umbrella of music yeah breathe it
yeah I think I probably need some some
hobbies it's the obsession that drives
it right right yeah well your obsessions
definitely lead to amazing music do you
like I've always been a fan for years
and I am like I in the initial text I
sent when I asked you to do this blown
away by break some ice in the video like
truly blown away thanks my beautiful
stuff and do you want to leave any last
pitches before we close this off
yeah just thanks everybody who listened
to this whole thing hopefully you
enjoyed it this was awesome I appreciate
you guys having me on
everyone definitely you know check out
the podcast and everything and uh
hopefully you guys all like the album
it's called holes in our stories can
they uh can I find anywhere like
Instagram Twitter or Facebook yeah
everywhere just at Dylan Owen music
cool man well thanks for coming yeah
[Music]
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Ep. #2 - Jesse James Keitel Official Transcript

what's going on guys welcome to
20-somethings the pod can't walk man now
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out side lab what's going on guys thanks
for tuning in to episode 2 of
twenty-somethings podcast
my name is Keith Vartan Ian and I'm
super excited to introduce our second
guest of the show to you their name is
Jesse James Keitel Jesse has been an
enormous friend of myself and Grant for
like 7 years ever since the beginning of
college they are a drag artist as well
as an actor and we talked about a lot of
really important issues that are going
on in the country right now so I'm just
gonna let the podcast speak for itself
without further ado please welcome the
amazing Jesse James chi-town
[Music]
audience members we're here today with
do you want me to Jesse James Keitel or
name yeah that that works that's good
okay do you want to tell the audience
what you do who you are your
relationship with us hi my name is Jesse
James Keitel I'm an actor and drag
artist
I know Grant and Keith from school and
are the very best friends there ever was
would you care to tell them what you
look like right now so right now I'm
like head to toe blue I just took off my
vintage leather dress with a bunch of
spikes on it and yeah I've got some fun
white hair and bright yellow contacts
yeah yeah I look like I have a tar but
fashion yeah it's really weird to talk
to somebody with eyes like that yeah
yeah it's super unnerving it is it's
like hard to like look I can't like I
don't want to like look at you on
talking to you know they're the first
things I put put on and the first thing
I take off yeah and it's amazing how
much it changes everything like I could
step out with just the contacts like
okay cool I'm ready
so are those was the yellow contacts cuz
they look like snake eyes no they're not
snake eyes guys get all walkie like you
blink and all of a sudden you've got one
up and down and one to the right like
that's really wild these are just good I
don't think I could ever wear contacts
in general cousin too twitchy of a
person like you've never contacts in
never know yeah and they're my glasses
or anything well I started with scleras
so that big giant black ones yeah that
was the first contacts I ever had and
then I just have glasses I do very
recently oh that's right I saw them you
have like the clear rim glasses yeah
prescription contacts no so the first
time you were contacts was putting them
in for drag the first time yeah was a
costume yeah was the big black square uh
yeah wear lenses for drag that's cool
yeah so when we first met when we met on
was it orientation that we first saw
each other I think so and I think I
remember you because we had orientation
at Pace University and they all had a
sleepover in the dorms for one or two
nights I think there's just one one
night and we were on like the floor
together I remember you yep looking very
cute you look like a pirate
are you ever dressing like a pirate not
intentionally but like that's how I
remember yes I remembered you guys like
the kid who looked like he work on like
a ship deck or something like yeah no I
didn't and so now so tiny to them we've
known each other for going on eight
years which is crazy yeah and for me
it's been interesting to see and watch
you evolve and start I don't know I
guess like just getting into the drag
scene because when I first met you it
wasn't as prominent in your life is it
my knight incorrect in saying that no
not at all I mean I definitely dabbled
with make up pre-college and it seems
like that's cool yeah people's hair and
stuff so there's always like those like
little underlying like yeah yeah it was
always something I was definitely
interested in um but never really knew
what I could do with it what I wanted to
do with it or it's like it took off like
after college definitely I mean there
was a reason for that totally we I mean
post-grad sucks so I think the year or
two fresh out of school I hated acting I
hated everything about my life cuz he
was a sorta I think we should also note
that yeah I went I went to school for
acting and I didn't feel fulfilled
artistic we buy it anymore and I think
just because I was getting very
discouraged yeah and so me and some
friends turned towards drag and makeup
as a fun way to express ourselves
artistically and
it definitely got me out of a funk and I
learned so so so much about myself as a
person myself as an artist and I learned
a ton of skills in the process
can you go can you go into that process
a little bit about like so you're saying
like you learned a bunch about yourself
like what
how does doing drag help you learn about
yourself I'm like what about for one
confidence I mean it you get to paint a
new face on yourself you get to paint an
entirely new version of you that you how
you want the world to see you how you
want to present yourself to the world
and it could be as simple as I don't
know we're wearing lipstick
I mean allowing yourself to to step out
of the house in something that's not the
norm mm-hmm one takes a lot of guts and
two is incredibly incredibly liberating
sure do you find it like when you go to
like when you do drag shows is it all
the same type of audience is it like a
different type of crowd every time is it
and how does the crowd work and how does
that work into like when you do a show I
mean to be honest I don't two shows very
often III what I really do mostly is
what I prefer to do is more like events
like going to like an album release or
like like things of that nature where
it's not necessarily a drag event
audiences are wildly different I mean
you can go to a drag show in Brooklyn
and just a bunch of like queer people
ready to have a good time or you can go
and be heckled not non-stop and and
harassed at some who-knows-where in
Midtown so it depends on where you go
where heckled by who I mean people who
think it's funny I mean even just on my
way here I had people being like what is
that what is that I mean I personally I
have no problem taking the subway yeah
because I'm financially able to say okay
I don't go out every day it's worth me
taking that car right and so I if I'm
like in dragged in the slightest sign
have you ever felt like that like by
taking the subway or just walking out on
the streets I feel like a danger
typically I would go with friends and
safety in numbers
yeah so in situations with friends no
alone yeah you definitely want to look
over your shoulder it sucks I mean I
think I live in a very safe area I think
I used to live in a very safe area you
like well New York is well New York a
good City to be and of course but yeah
there's definitely times very
interesting it's like when you present
yourself a certain way you're just sort
of diving in to the norm right like
you're like walking outside into the
norm and you're standing outside of all
of that yeah immediately like
instantaneously well it's it's funny how
like me being neon blue right now it
automatically calls attention to itself
yeah like I'm my me existing in the
world today in this moment is calling
attention to myself but whether I want
it or not yeah but what about it I don't
understand what about it thank like if I
saw someone that was like blue outside
it wouldn't make me want to be like oh I
got you know heckle that person I got a
beat that person like why do people just
because of the colors different it's
just because it's different I know are
inherently afraid of the other yeah and
even even they might not think it's a
negative they could be really interested
but there's that that can still make
someone nervous too I mean do you ever
like do children ever interact Oh
totally like that's really interesting
yeah we actually did a performance art
festival upstate last summer and it was
a whole like family-friendly event so
the middle of the day doing full drag
and we were part part of the performance
was us getting ready mm-hmm
so people would come by over the course
of a couple hours and watch us
throughout the process getting ready
and kids would come up and have
questions and they would want us turned
into a little bit like children's party
face painting but yeah they would want
us like do their makeup and things like
that
I think Sheldon are very curious
were they younger or they like kind of
like 6 or 7 like with a three years old
I would say maybe like five okay yeah
like they were little right yeah well
the children it's just like colors like
it's like the others yeah whatever have
a predisposition as to what you know
what's going on they're just interested
they're just curious yeah that's really
interesting I feel like my kids would
probably be all not my kids but like the
students that I teach would be like
they'd be like you know not not scared
at first be like what's this and then as
soon as you start talking I mean more
often than not especially like my type
of drag because I don't necessarily it's
less about gender more about what's so
artistic yeah there's so much detail
that goes into it
thank you yeah but I think I'm never
necessarily being a woman or a man or
any of the above it's I I think
inherently more inviting yeah because I
think a lot of people are confused by
what a drag queen is you will not define
it for people I don't think that
necessarily is one I mean I there's
plenty of people who are like men like
cisgender men who their drag is being a
big beautiful gorgeous glamorous woman
and that's totally valid I think that's
more of a mainstream approach to what
drag is my like I'm a queer Femmes n
ting person who my drag I think is just
kind of an alienated extension of myself
okay now I I think it is rather it's
less about embodying another gender and
more about playing with what gender even
is interesting yeah like what you do
with drag is I think every time I don't
know that you've ever have you ever
repite to look like have you ever done
the same look twice I've never seen you
post the same thing twice I mean like
I've definitely used elements yeah
repeated elements but it's never the
same things that you're not you're not
like copying a look from before and I
think it's just so cool I mean that's
the exciting part is you change one
small thing and all of a sudden it's
entirely new look like I've worn this
this leather dress multiple times but
I've done two completely different
things with it I remember watching you
at the office when you used to get ready
and it would just be like you would have
a bunch of materials and you wouldn't
have known what to do with them yet yeah
I'm just gonna throw this here and all
of a sudden start doing and then the
next thing you know it's like this whole
concoction of different things that you
threw together at different times but
now it all works it's just I don't know
there's a really cool process to watch
well it's amazing how how fast you learn
and grow too because from me now versus
me a year ago I may not have done
hundreds of looks but the few I may have
done between then and now I've grown so
much in skill and in artistic eye and
where I want to go and and just how I go
about in my process yeah so I guess I
also want to ask how much do you think
your appearance like makes up your
identity like so how when you are just
not dressed up and as Jessie do you feel
different than when you're dressed up is
there a different personality that comes
along with the particular outfit that
you've decided to wear or the costume
that you've come up with and created I
mean I'm no different I mean like I it
definitely doesn't change me like it's
not a character I'm not putting on like
a voice or anything of that nature it's
it's me with makeup it's me with a bunch
of chemicals on my face right I guess
I'm just wondering like psychologically
like when you look in your tone about
yourself and you look completely
different that's got to be a jarring
experience right like when I shaved my
beard it's a little jarring I definitely
find I look at myself a lot more because
it's like I
the way it looks it I mean I think a
great example of what it does last year
I went out to a club for my birthday I
was not in drag I was on vacation in
Puerto Rico actually and there was like
not like a dance-off but something was
happening and I was too shy to join and
my boyfriend AJ said we just cuz you're
not wearing a mask of makeup you don't
have the confidence to do it interesting
I was so mad I was like how dare you
point that out did you like what I did
what did you get mad because like we
were feeling yes yeah and I it took me
by surprise because I was like yeah I'm
wearing ten pounds of makeup and it is a
mask even the contacts the contacts it
adds just a level of distance between me
and you that I think in a weird way
gives me more freedom to live freely
within my body mm-hmm so I I just have
more confidence because there's less
judgment cuz you're not necessarily
looking at me at Jesse you're looking at
what's on my face yeah do you think
that's translated to your acting at all
100% yeah because I it's just made me
more confident of a person because I
think I can acknowledge when when I'm
feeling insecure and why well I think
being at like a vulnerable state like
you're at if you know night-in night-out
like is gonna have an effect to where
like when your buyers you know when
you're in your own skin it's like
whatever like yeah I've been at that
insecure level so many times you know
that like that vulnerable level so many
times that like it's it's easy it's
repetitive I also imagine it's like it's
therapeutic right you know yeah in that
like you you have this freedom while
you're dressed up but like over time
doesn't that freedom just become the
normal state becomes I mean it doesn't
it doesn't because you know what it's
it's not my everyday it's still
something I put on it's still something
that I have to take a few hours of my
of my life that day and and paint and
and create and it so yeah it's it's fun
it's exciting every time and you step
out of the house in a new look that
you've never done before
and it's nothing but pure excitement if
you feel good it people know mm-hmm
that's yeah and I think I mean for me as
an actor I think it's given me a lot of
guts in a way like a project last summer
Alex Strangelove it's coming to Netflix
this summer tuned six they believe I
went to the audition in basically like
full golf drag and I'm all choices like
talking about a bold choice and I'm like
95% sure half the reason I got the job
is because of the makeup and I never
ever ever regardless of any skill level
I had or didn't have I never would have
had the guts to do that
pre my experience in drag right because
it I don't know there's something that
made me think it it doesn't matter just
yeah I mean I feel it slightly when I
like wear something that I'm a little
bit insecure about wearing outside right
like when you finally get the guts to
like put on that shirt like you don't
know how people are gonna think about it
right mm-hmm
well it's interesting like the dress I
keep referencing the one I'm wearing
tonight yeah me in the daytime wearing
it I look ridiculous like it looks
absurd I feel absurd I definitely have
worn it out before and just feel very
insecure in it mmm-hmm put on an hour's
worth of makeup and all of a sudden its
cohesive and I don't feel weird in it
anymore
yeah isn't that weird how like the
environment you're in can affect how you
feel so much totally yeah we were just
talking about that earlier too about how
like I guess if you're too comfortable
like if you're not feeling like pressure
or I don't know if you're not feeling
that like the if you're not if you're
not feeling comfortable all the time
like you know like if you're going into
an acting audition you're always doing
the same choice if you're always doing
the same thing over and over again
you're never kind of pushing the limits
you're never gonna get anywhere but if
you're doing that all the time and
you're pushing yourself to that that
point of like this is kind of like
really uncomfortable and you continue to
do that over and over again that like
you're saying the way that kind of
becomes the norm
but and you end up doing it in a normal
setting and it any worse but there's
like where it's like people are confuse
with comfort and complacency right those
are two very different things
so like you're saying like it's
comfortable but it's more like
complacency in that it's not so
comfortable because a lot of people feel
restricted all the time true you know
yeah so they're similar in that it's
like monotonous and it's the same thing
over and over again but one is there by
choice and the other one is you're there
because you don't want to put that
pressure on yourself you don't you're
not you don't have to the confidence the
motivation the balls the balls yeah the
balls talking about that early to
posting a status what was the status we
wanted to post we were just talking I
forget we went through a number of
statuses yeah what was the first one oh
the first one was that aren't arge and
I'll say else it our generation our
generation needs to grow some fucking
balls
our generation that's that was the
status and we said we definitely weren't
gonna post at the Facebook because if we
posted that on Facebook we'd probably
get reamed apart for it yeah I mean it's
true yeah I mean like like you have
fucking balls like you know like thank
you no I think I think it really is true
to an extent we were watching the reason
why we're talking about this was because
we were listening to Jordan Peterson do
you know anything about him no I don't
think so
he's like this over the past year he's
can become like this prominent
philosopher is this clinical
psychologist and his big thing is he's
very against post
an ism and he's very against political
correctness because he says it creates
too much of a safe space in that people
become too fragile basically when you're
too politically correct nobody actually
speaks their opinions and therefore no
progress is made no I definitely think
there's there's a fine line because I
think political correctness is important
and I do think it's powerful however I
think it can cross cross over into being
toxic when it's so heavy-handed what
line what line is that for you like what
would represent that crossing outlined I
think as details matter I mean it's even
like before when I was saying people who
don't understand what a drag queen is
it's like a drag queen who is some
something that's being put on it's like
a performance it's just just for the
show it's it's a game right versus like
a trans woman mm-hm it's about identity
and the difference between identity and
performance and I personally know many
people in my life who did not know the
difference between a drag queen and a
trans woman and I think that's where
political correctness is tremendously
important because it's aid in some cases
life or death mm-hmm
you know I mean how can you elaborate I
mean the people getting killed for it's
not not being understood trans women
getting killed for people being scared
because they don't know what it is drag
queens being assaulted or killed
murdered because they're people are
scared and they don't understand and I
think that's where political correctness
and terminology and words and language
that's where I think it's it's
wonderfully important now when you are
the PC police and you over police the
way people talk and then they don't they
don't want to talk they don't want to
learn they're closed off because they're
scared of being wrong or looking like an
idiot and that's
that's and that is I don't think that's
necessarily in your words meeting balls
I think that's knowing when to shut the
fuck up and fight fight yeah fight pick
and choose your battles and yeah yeah
yes yes that's my two cents I mean uh on
this topic and it's actually heavily
related to this this guy Jordan Peterson
he's been speaking out in Canada they
recently passed the law I think it's
called like BC 16 or something where
it's now legally required that you have
to refer to trans people through their
proper pronouns legally so you can get
in legal trouble if you don't and he was
speaking out saying that's crossing a
line because you're impeding on free
speech well and he sounds like an idiot
in my opinion from the two seconds I've
heard of him I think that's great but I
understand where the law is coming from
but that's like me caught referencing
you grant a cisgender male being like
look at her look at her look at her
she's whatever and if it's something
that truly upset you and not just upset
you completely denies your existence as
a person completely negates your
identity and basically in dangers you in
many circumstances I that's bad I mean
if we're on the subject of trans people
why is the suicide suicide rate for
trans people so high it's not because
being trans makes you want to die it's
from not being accepted yeah and if
that's if making a law saying
misgendering a trans person is illegal
if that law saves thousands of lives if
it saves one life that law is important
I just to play devil's advocate because
I agree I mean I I I mean I will
obviously if a trans person wants me to
call them I something I'm going to call
them by it right like whatever you want
me to call you that's totally fine but I
feel like if you start making laws
telling people to do things you're gonna
you're gonna get
one backlash for sure people just aren't
gonna want to do what you want them to
do you can't force people to say things
and if you put a legal thing on it then
I mean how could somebody you're gonna
have all these cases of someone being
like well he called me this and she
called me this and you're getting into
this really weird gray area of what's I
think it's also offering protections for
trans people I mean this this says I I
am a person and I have the legal right
to maintain my identity in the public
sphere
yeah and for you to negate that is
problematic and I think that's giving
them closer and closer to broader legal
protections it's a recognition right
yeah if anything it's symbolic right by
the government like it's highly symbolic
of like we care about you and just
thinking like in the workplace I mean in
casual conversation like if you
misgendered someone I'm sure them
bringing you to court would be
ridiculous but if it's like in a
workplace situation and a boss referring
to their employee by with improper
pronouns consistently not on accident
but as an act of aggression I totally
see why that law would be more than I
mean well it's like then it gets into
like hate speech right Rattray sweet
like free speech only goes so far like
there are things that are not like
protected under free speech right hate
speech is not protected under freeze
right but now it's not calling someone
something can be constituted as hate
speech but here's but here's the
difference you have the freedom of
speech you could say whatever the fuck
you want mm-hmm however you saying
whatever the fuck you want does have
consequences and I'm going back to
suicide the lovely topic if you
misgendering someone led to something
bad happening to them either
from them committing self-harm or
someone else committing some kind of act
of aggression I don't know I I find it a
good thing to be a yeah yeah yeah I mean
I I totally agree that people should
definitely you know they should a
hundred percent call whatever you want
like I said whatever problem that I see
with I I think the goal like and what
their what a law like that is aiming to
do is phenomenal I it worries me because
I think people don't like being told
what to do on like a just being told
what to do I mean there's also I
guarantee you like I know we're not
talking about you and me we've you most
certainly interacted with way more
transgender people than you would ever
ever even know and I don't know I it's
it's drawing attention to something that
doesn't need to be drawn attention to
necessarily like transgender bathroom
debate mm-hmm we've all shared a
bathroom with someone who's trans right
you wouldn't you wouldn't know it's just
a fear of the other right that is like
how does that impact you at all right it
doesn't and the same thing with with
making it illegal to refer to someone
with the incorrect pronouns I mean you
know is saying it like that that does
sound absurd however if you're saying it
as a in terms of protections yeah
for an individual I mean better way for
them to frame it that well perhaps you
yes but at the same time there's only
that protection for that group of people
so now we you have to you got to protect
all the groups of people right so now
it's like like I can't call you a woman
I mean you can but grant sitting here as
this is man is that's not going to
affect grants safety and like
psychological development and but it has
to be equal for everyone sure but I
think that's that's so I hate that I
hate that argument so much
because that's like Oh what about me I
Oh what black lives matter what about my
life as the white horse lives like it's
the same it's the same argument there it
doesn't that's not even in the same
ballpark in my opinion it's like just be
a decent human being and refer to people
the way they want to be referred to and
and I don't think I don't think there's
a debate it it's if someone's going to
miss gender someone it could happen
accidentally it happens it is what it is
but I mean accidentally more than not
and if it happens continually after
repeating after repeatedly correcting
someone it's an activist you can't you
can't deny that that is a form of an act
of aggression or just ignorance and just
yeah you just hope that like it wouldn't
need to get to a legal situation you
would hope that the people around with
are good enough people to be able to see
the problem and exonerate the problem
before it gets any worse you know if
there's like someone in a workplace that
is doing this to an employee you would
hope that everyone else in the workplace
would be like okay we're gone you would
hope you would hope but like now I'm
thinking it's like do we think that this
country would have desegregated if the
laws didn't change right exactly that's
a huge point so laws laws permit
progress to take place
like sometimes laws are that pushing
force that allow it to take for like to
take place because when a law is
instilled a law becomes a part of the
identity of a country and then the
population of that country while their
personal views might not change usually
people will go along with them
like the identity of whatever country
they're a part of but see I don't
believe and now correct me if I'm wrong
because it might be constituted as hate
speech but I don't believe there is a
law saying that a white person can't
call a black person the n-word is there
I don't know
I depend on the context I think all
right there's not a it is a racial slur
for sure I don't know I'm just that
that's just know I mean but I wouldn't
like recommend anybody no no there's not
there's not a law against no I think
that's what I'm saying it's like it's
where do these laws come into play like
you're toying with laws here with
language and that's a scary thing no but
I think it's in the same thing it's like
it might not be illegal to say it but
don't say it cuz you're a dick right
right but that's what I'm saying is like
I don't know that it should be a law I
think people should just be good people
right you know like you can't have that
much faith in people like when you
condition a child to act a certain way
you punish them right but then like you
put not like punish them but like it's
like oh you hit your brother and go in
timeout right like it's like it's such a
like elementary form of law right but
what like in like Jordan Peterson was
saying he was you know as soon as you
start to restrict restrict people speech
now granted this is speech that you all
want everyone wants to restrict of
course mm-hmm but as soon as you start
to do that we start to you know over
time maybe not immediately but over time
you start to not think anymore like like
Jordan Peterson was saying I think
there's some validity to that you know
yeah you got to make sure that this
doesn't get too out of control almost
that were that were that were like you
said like the PC police that you're
doing every single little thing but I
think we're in the era of reining that
in I mean post Trump I think a lot of
people did a lot of reflecting I mean
that's for sure I I definitely like I
said earlier I think there's value and
importance in political correctness in
political correctness excuse me but when
it's taken too far I think it is very
effective at silencing a lot of people I
mean I know like my family my mother
often is scared to talk about certain
subjects with me even just out of fear
of saying the wrong thing and feeling in
restrict conversation almost of course
and I it's totally valid it's a valid
response to to being corrected and
[Music]
whatever that was yeah and also like
political correctness can get to a point
like just the the fact that there's a
term PC police you know that term was
developed because it's gotten to a form
the point where you can joke around
about it right so when something turns
into a joke it's no longer taken
seriously you know I'm saying can you
say that one more time like now we have
we have a term that we can call these
people PC police right so like that's
political correctness going too far to
the point that we're now we have a label
right like it's already kind of meant
like making fun of in a way yeah but
having a joke about it having a joke
about the extremes of it it doesn't
negate the entire thing no I know I know
I'm saying like once you cross that line
totally yeah yeah weird conversation to
have because like I said you just hope
people would be good enough people yeah
it's like you know that's what it all
comes down to just be a good person I
don't know I've been thinking about that
a lot recently and it's like I don't
know if people are inherently good if
you look at this story it would seem as
though they're not but you want to
believe it and your were brought up I
think especially in America like we're
taught that people are good we're taught
that Americans are good we're talking
that we're the best
and we're righteous and we're
outstanding and upstanding yeah well you
get older and you start to see the flaws
and those statements
I don't know I don't know if people are
good I think people might need might me
laws to change like I I mean clearly
when you encounter some people just if
you encounter some trolls on Facebook
it's like how are these people ever
going to change without that pressure
well like I don't think anyone who's
ever I don't know called me a faggot
walking down the street or I just said
whatever they've said to me like in drag
or or out while I'm in public I don't
think any one of them isn't inherently a
bad person I think to them I might be
the bad person
you know yeah lady like sincere way to
look at that from your opponent you know
from your point of view yeah I yeah I I
don't think people can be classified as
necessarily good and bad just because of
their response to something that they're
not familiar with mm-hmm you know it's
like what you were saying before about a
child and like learning it's like I hit
my brother and now I go to timeout you
learn as society learns you know yeah
there's a lot of things that we're
talking about in today's day and age
that our parents didn't talk about no
you know it wasn't part of the society's
vernacular in the moment yeah and go
ahead just just where we're building
language to like we're building language
as we go in a way language evolves
people evolve with it yeah and you're
either on the forefront of it and you're
within that sphere or you're not and
you've got a little bit of a delay and
that's fine yeah but history is on the
side of progress history is on the side
of progress and you can't shame someone
just because they're two months behind
you in the verbage talking about
interesting that you you cite like
language is such a driving force of
progress as well I'm I'm taking a
linguistics class right now and I'm
writing my research paper about the link
between emotional intelligence and
emotional vocabulary that's gonna be my
final paper and there's studies that
show that when you have a word to label
and a certain emotion you respond like
the part of your brain that sets off the
physiological reaction to that emotion
if you can label it it's not as active
when you experience that emotion so when
you have a word for something when you
can label something the way your brain
responds to it it doesn't go into that
fight-or-flight mode as quickly when you
can label it it's no longer the unknown
so it makes sense that language is such
a like crucial part of that human
progress right as we learn more as we
label more more and more becomes known
to us and that way we just overall we
develop a better understanding of the
world a better understanding of the
abstract the things that scare us the
things that were once other but we still
use language and then still get scared
like in the very early stages I think I
mean we definitely evolved like you said
like there's like that two-month delay
or whatever but like you know like I
remember we talked about this before
when we were in high school like I used
to say you know faggot but I wouldn't
use it as like a derogatory term towards
anyone that was gay was just something
that was said in high school you know
like all like that's so gay or whatever
you know but like totally as you you
know once I came to New York that was
like okay that's done like we you can't
say that anymore I don't
yeah but you changed with your as your
understanding of the word evolved you
evolved with it right
but what like well I would actually say
that he evolved first and then his
understanding of the word like he
experienced a different environment and
then he was like that word is not okay
perhaps but there are some people that
use that word and then you have that
fight-or-flight and still are like you
know like nervous around that person
like someone walking down the street and
being like golf you know youth or
whatever they're experiencing that
fight-or-flight like yeah they're
experiencing that fear so that's
interesting like the emotional why don't
you call I don't know if it worked like
I feel like over time that person
continuously having that word in their
brain with that label the problem if
we're gonna use faggot as the example
it's a derogatory term
well like it has connotations linked to
it yeah if you were like like you were
saying before if you knew the difference
between somebody who's trans and
somebody who's a drag queen
those don't carry that connotation true
so if you could just label it as what it
is not as not you thinking nice right
what I'm saying is that the language
evolves use you don't have it in your
head as a as faggot anymore it's now
actually what it is
oh that is a gay man oh that is a
bisexual man that is a that is a drag
queen that you know like you have an
actual label for it
yeah not the derogatory anymore right it
evolves yeah yeah words words shape our
experiences they really do yeah and
hence why political correctness can be
important yeah it's important to say the
right thing like five hundred percent
yeah I don't know it's it's good yeah
it's hard though it's hard in right now
to be nice to everybody you know and
it's weird because I feel like Democrats
like we used to be the nice ones and I
feel like we're being forced not to be
nice anymore thank you guys we yeah
getting getting the dirt and playing off
a little bit well like we I feel like we
used to be like the Democrats used to be
the ones that were like anti violence
and like anti and now I feel like like
we would never speak a certain way or
sink to a certain level and I feel like
that party has has done so yeah I think
we've been dragged into the inside I
mean realistically I think the majority
of our generation is Democrat by
necessity in independent by like in
their heart yeah I mean yes the one
thing I hate about it same thing with
like organized religion like when you
subscribe to an a guerrilla gee-ya an
ideology a group it's so it's such a
strict binary in my head it is at least
like yeah for me to say I'm a Democrat
that means I believe in X Y & Z when
that's not necessarily the case right
you know but it's important to be like
Thanks so if it features non-binary
let's have that stretch not just gender
and whatever but into our political
system as well hundred percent yeah
because even right there bang yeah but
seriously like productivity is so
hindered like through I did like
identifying with your ideology once you
identify with your ideology that leaves
very little room for progress but you'll
see people that I mean they stick to I
mean you'll see it on the right you'll
see on the Left you'll see it in
Christianity you'll see
it's all over the place it's like once
you're in that zone
you're not leaving that so the thing is
like I am at like there are obviously
some people not brainwash but the let's
views brainwashed here but they are
brainwashed and like whatever
so they'll are going to believe anything
that their party release releases but
there are other people and I imagine
this is a majority of people that
question a lot of things that their
party does or how they're acting or some
of their beliefs but they don't speak
out for the fear of being like cast yeah
castrated by the the the rest of their
party yeah it's also it's like you know
sport teams it's like oh yeah the
quarterback did some not good things but
they're my team I want them to win right
so I'm gonna give them a pass yeah it's
it's so stupid it's stupid but it's
amazing because like it's it's like we
needed it to feel ourselves we need to
identify with this thing it's a really
mentality what is that it's like a pack
mentality almost a tribal it's very
tribal yeah yeah but you know there's a
reason why tribes don't exist anymore
right
you know like tribes they still kind of
do unfortunately they do but they exist
on a much like grander scale right like
we have States and we have countries and
yeah but when you're tribal
you're you're looking for an enemy like
your tribe exists as one entity and
everything else is your enemy right
necessarily I mean that's just your
community that's where you are that's
that's who you are if that's where you
find identity is within with like-minded
people I don't I don't know if that's
necessarily casting everyone else's the
enemy but yeah totally when it's I mean
right now we're living in a fractured
two-party system where it's this or that
and anything in between doesn't actually
get to vote in the bigger elections but
yeah they can't mean the ones that
matter yeah that's true
like what do you what do you guys think
is gonna happen like like can we tell
the remember do you guys have moments
throughout your day
just like like kanye west's just tweeted
at Donald Trump saying we both have
dragon energy I was this is what it's
come to could you imagine being like the
PERT like Vladimir Putin like watching
this unfold like walls all in his plans
think about I mean this is the crumbling
of an empire what we're watching is
growing up in the United States like we
were just like hit so hard to have such
immense respect for our political system
and you know people are saying like the
apocalypse is coming like we're heading
towards dystopia how do we know we're
not there right now I mean this is know
definitely the most dystopian time that
we've ever lived in like people are like
what's gonna happen in 2020 what about
right now like this Kanye West and dr.
Donald Trump's like I love you Kanye
best wow really cool yeah like we did a
chance to today and chance actually they
could already have been like you know I
don't support Trombley he sent out this
whole thing but Trump then went back
it's like thank you so much to chance
and like you just thank someone else as
well it's like he's just like really
playing that card right now huh yeah
it's it's amazing how like for a while
if every day is overwhelming I mean I
I'm someone I watched the news a lot I
watch me too although I watch all like
the nighttime talk show comedy news
shows like I love it I love them all and
it's so fucking overwhelming it's
exhausting but it's amazing how I mean
me and you spoke about this not too long
ago how in the weird way I feel almost
indifferent because it's gotten to the
point where I'm so inundated with just
crazy just crazy stuff every day and if
it's not world events it's something
stupid certain political figures may
have said yeah and and it's it's so
overwhelming at this point that it's
well the blonde I turned a blind eye to
it that's how things become normal it's
like if something is
there's somebody outside who's doing
construction and it's happening all day
eventually that noise will won't become
noise it'll just become like the normal
level of sound when you're hearing that
buzzing that commotion outside will just
be that default level of white noise and
that's what's happened here the news has
become the white noise level yeah and
that is insane I don't think that as a
species you have to remember as a sweet
like just invented the printing press
right
that just happened yeah like what was
that like 200 years ago 300 years ago
we're way too technologically but we've
been around for three hundred thousand
years and now think about the amount of
information that we're in taking every
day and it's not just neutral
information it's information that's
having an emotional impact on our brains
it's sending and shooting off neurons
and and physiological responses and I
just I can't imagine what it's actually
doing to us on an evolutionary level you
know well there was how much we're like
how much information we're taking in
every day compared to what we were
before the before the computers around
and it's just it's insane well I think
just between like now in 1920 the
statistic is like in one day we're
taking more than like a person didn't
you know the 1930s took in their whole
life yeah on average that is crazy
that's insane but it's not it's insane
but when you hear it and then you think
about the amount of information we take
and you're like that makes sense though
because like clumsier living people were
barely reading books right now like
right yeah I when I was in India I had
my phone and I was traveling on a train
I downloaded a book right on my phone a
300 page book and I started reading it
on a sleeper train in India yeah I had
content I had information ready to go
anywhere you can get the news you can
get what's going on in like Korea while
you're in like Britain well that's the
other mad news is around the world yeah
a couple months ago when there was that
shooting in New York on the Westside
Highway
do you remember that the
guy like ran the truck through the biker
trail and like had a bunch of 500 before
I knew about it Liam I think Liam texted
me about it
before I knew about it it doesn't sound
like a big deal because it's normal for
us now but think about that yeah so he
texted me like 10 minutes after it
happened he's in England and you're in
New York and you're here that's crazy
that's also a difference just in like
our our age too though like I don't have
cable yeah like for me to get news is
purely from my phone yeah no it's gonna
be from now on
that's the thing evolution I mean a
hundred percent that's that's like where
we're going evolutionarily we're not
gonna be watching cable news I mean I
don't you guys I deleted a news app off
my phone I couldn't stand getting those
notifications I did that almost two
years ago I still have it but I never
click on on those I just yeah I'll be
out where I'll be out where I could be
like oh that happened and I'll go on
with my day that was like when the MIT
when we were launching missiles at area
we were launching missiles at Syria and
it was like you know any other time
period in like in our you know wives
this would have been like a significant
event and it's like the back burner of
the news page of the news stories well
it's like today the North Korea and
South Korea announced that they're
signing a treaty to end a 75 year old
war that's insane but I go on CNN the
top thing is like Russian lawyer
involved in like the Trump Tower meeting
was never around and I'm like agenda
what like how why is this most important
it's all clickbait it's all it is now
like you have to sift through that's the
other thing now we're getting hit with
all this content but we also have to be
very aware that it's not all valid right
like we have to be filtering things and
it's also yeah it's been a turd to us
like like the Facebook algorithm is
Facebook caught a lot of crap because
their algorithms were working in so that
if you were looking and standing with
YouTube if you're looking at like
articles you're never gonna get the
right side of things if you're looking
at you know conservatives so if you're
looking at like The Daily Beast or
whatever you know Daily Mail whatever
you're never gonna get the left so you
just like continually polarizing and
polarizing
it's all based on your devices which are
all linked to yeah and you can test that
too because when I'm on my laptop my
desktop or my phone I see basically the
same stuff but when I go on my work
computer it's all different well what's
what's the link there I mean I don't
know Facebook no I'm saying like if I'm
scrolling on CNN or on Yahoo or
something no I know but like I what I've
noticed cuz I work in an office from
computers
yeah and I'll notice if I'm on logged
into Facebook for example on a work
computer and I look up target lamps
mm-hmm I'll get ads on my phone for
target lamps yeah and what's the
connector yeah it's it's Facebook it's
all of them it's Facebook it's your your
phone it listens to you it sounds like a
conspiracy but I have a friend who
tested it he spoke about a certain
product around his phone for a week and
then add start showing up on his phone
for really yeah that's crazy
yeah because really scary though your
phones are listening to you if you have
a go one of those amazon dots or or
certain TVs to that also they were smart
and they were claimed that they watch
you or like the people are watching
through your like your laptops computers
and you know I work with students and
I've started noticing this thing they
bring their laptops in and all of them
have their thing covered yeah well were
you did you work with us when I did that
yes you covered all those I covered all
all the webcams because I was sitting at
work typing away yeah and the webcam
light turned on and I know that that
that might not necessarily mean anything
but it happened it's like what it would
be activating well I thought I saw it I
thought I saw it and I was like oh
that's weird and then I saw it happen
again I was like no way and I waited a
little while later and I it turned on
the webcam camera
nothing would open that I I didn't have
any app that would have that Oh creepy I
was like all right no more and I put it
posted over it for a while I every
computer but it makes sense it's like
you and I were having a conversation a
couple weeks ago about how easy it would
be to hack somebody if you really want
it to yeah cuz you know how you have
like security questions for all of your
ya know so much information about it
right it's like we just go on Facebook
like oh who was your first lady oh well
sister right they're like okay now I can
answer that question yeah like everybody
has all their family members listed it
would take a hacker like like two
minutes you know it's got to be
relatively easy to go onto somebody's
webcam if you really wanted to right
I mean I had that hacker that knows how
to get into your system sure yeah he's
got to figure out a way to get into your
system and then they get you know can
navigate to your camera turn it on it's
this card there's just so much that I
think that we know so little about that
goes on well the fact like just the door
better off not knowing I think so too I
mean you know like the dark web makes up
like 75% of the entire Internet think
about all the internet you've ever been
on that's like that's insane of it yeah
and we're not allowed to go on it what a
crazy thing the dark web well I wonder
what that looks like I've been on it
have you no you have to dance so I would
recommend downloading VPN but you have
to download a certain browser I think
it's called like onion yeah yeah and
then you have then you log on through
this browser which is encrypted I'm
pretty sure and then you have to you can
access all the stuff and it's crazy you
can you can access like you can hire a
assassin oh my god you can buy drugs
obviously there's the Silk Road which
was that big
- it's not legal to browsers you're not
in you can't do anything on this a quest
you're not really not people get
arrested all the time for like busted
with like on child pornography sites and
stuff like oh my god yeah that's all in
the dark web yeah
you can buy firearms and you can't
access those dark web
science from a normal browser no it's
impossible no that's interesting is so
interesting how that how that works yeah
take a totally separate section but it's
like what are what aren't we seeing like
what's the facade
you know the facade yeah well the facade
is the internet that we're allowed to
make masks right yeah I mean anyway but
it's weird it's like it's like some like
like what does thanks you know if we're
talking about like before we were
talking about whether people are
inherently good or bad well 75% of right
that sounds pretty bad yeah it's like it
seems like there's a special again I'm
going to say especially in our country
and I've always been keenly aware that
this there's such a point of like we're
good we're great we're the good ones be
the best where the heroes like yeah I
saw this time today and it was like it
was like you know they'll never take
away my guns because if if they ever
took you know if my kid ever needed to
go to Italy exist this whole thing about
like with Britain right now about this
kid that did wasn't allowed to go to
Italy and now he's dying in Britain he
had get his life support poles and
everything and it was because of the
universal health care in Britain that's
a whole separate story but this guy
tweeted and was like you know if they
ever tried to take my kid off a plane
you know I would take my gun out and I'd
hijacked that plane and drive to Italy
it's like damn like we think we're the
good ones and that's what you're saying
you just talked about hijacking a plane
it's like what the wait I don't follow
who is this guy it's just a random guy
but he's an American that like believes
in like his second oh he's American yeah
he's American wait but how did the where
did Brit come into it what do you mean
didn't you say Britain yeah no no no
so this okay so that was a whole
separate that's why I said this is
almost every store oh okay Britain had a
there was a child in Britain that wasn't
allowed access to health care like his
the health care because yeah you have to
wait a long long time and so the parents
want to bring him over to Italy to get
health care and the British government
said no and this is the whole thing
being like thrown around by a right wing
you know yeah
Dewar's and whatever so I don't even
know the validity of this whole thing
but an American guy saw that and then
was like you you never this is why we
need our Second Amendment is because I'm
gonna you know if they ever tried to do
that to me I'd bring a gun on the plane
and hijack the plane so I could get my
kid to Italy just like the innocent
solution that comes there well it's like
we think that we're the good ones what
you know what's going on what's going on
there I can tell you right now if you've
ever been to any other country in the
world America is not perceived as the
good country by anybody else we're not
not in Europe not in Asia nobody looks
at it it's so funny we are seen as a
place of prosperity yes we are seen as a
place where people want to go to make
money but as far as our ethics people
don't look at us at least in our global
affairs
I think we're seen as a plate I mean I
guess it's complicated because to some
countries we're such like a beacon of
light right like we're such like they
were like the end we're like the top
well yeah but at the same time there's a
lot of resentment we've talked about
this like when you were in Iceland I was
really me my sister took a trip to
Iceland and we got into a fight with
this like 50-something year-old woman at
a bar about the United States and she I
mean she was clearly under the influence
of something yeah and but she wouldn't
even hear us out how we were on her side
and we agreed
she's like you Americans you think
you're the best like look at us we
actually are higher up than you like
just saying stupid stuff but yeah she
wouldn't even listen to us try and be
like no no we agree yes our our
education system yes are our taxes yes
because her whole thing was we pay all
these taxes and we see the benefits like
we know where our money is going we
might not have the military the United
States has
but
your your taxes go to go towards
murdering people yeah that's what she
was saying and we're like yes we agree
that's not good but she was she saw us
as Americans and therefore as I had a
similar experience like when I was
traveling in India and Nepal because I
was with a group of really great people
but mostly from Australia and one guy
from England and it was like a joke
right like there were a lot there are
just so many light-hearted jokes about
America along the way not many jokes
about Australia not many jokes about
England but like men and I was the only
American but the jokes were became
relentless right and it got to a point
and I think I told you this where I got
to a point where I was like I started
feeling a little patriotic for the first
time in my life because I was like this
is a little bit ridiculous like when
you're constantly shitting all over
America and saying everybody from
America is domme and making these you
know general stereotypes that everybody
always says about America even people
that have never been to America they say
these things and yet they're all on
iPhones you know listening to American
music
exactly we're wearing American clothes
right and it's so it's this weird
relationship that I think the rest of
the world has with America where it's
like well we give them things well yeah
we a lot with a lot of innovation and
production comes out of America but
we're also like the world's oppressor
right like we are we are because America
exists nobody else will have our
position right so we're automatically
put in the position of being the
oppressor we're number one we're the
most powerful country which builds up
resentment whenever there's an oppressor
like the the people there's the subjects
like I hate to use like such like
medieval terms but like they're going to
build up resentment right towards the
nation that has the power towards the
individual that has the power of the
king we have our hand in so many
different countries
over the place where everywhere yeah I
mean I think I mean we're like in a lot
of country I think it's like upwards of
there's gotta be more than 30 countries
that we're in right now with more than
30 countries yeah I would say I mean we
have we have a global presence that is
just unheard of we're the only
superpower that has ever existed bases
in Turkey we got babe we got bases all
over the place yeah it's nuts
like even like the countries that are
run during our runners up like England
France like they're not even close even
Russia and China like they're not even
close
look at the military spending just in
just that in general yeah like I think
it's like more than the next six
countries combined we spend on our
military something like that I'm
convinced that we're living in a video
game simulation I'm I'm convinced that
were just a video game simulation and
that all of this is just like this is
the game right there was like well we
lower ourselves up or not and that's the
game but who's playing I don't know some
guy lays it only one person controlling
all of us and then aren't we just guy
girls play video games too but why isn't
it we were just girls PC police come on
not only guys can play the game of life
right we were talking before I don't
know what this just jumped into my head
but before you got here I was listening
to this lecture from this biologist
earlier today who was talking about
different species that are asexual and
so they reproduced by either like
budding or cloning and stuff like that
and he was saying that there's
evolutionary evidence that shows that
these creatures become asexual from
profound loneliness which means that
over time this species like the rate at
which they found another one of their
species became so slim that evolution
made them asexual I am gonna predict
right now that in like
five thousand years that's happening to
humans
we're gonna get so we're just gonna be
like on our phone like whatever gadgets
we have just are like bunny out of my
shoulder yeah just like plop out on the
ground
dad yeah isn't that wild oh that's cool
it's just weird to think about how like
there's there is some sort of underlying
force or energy that is pushing us in
some direction like it's guiding us like
we were saying before like at that at
that time like something in ourselves
knew that that species was not mating at
the rate that it should be mating at and
so it was just like fuck it we'll just
start reproducing with one of us has a
cold okay as a collective being you know
like it's like well then it's just like
then it realized like there is like I
hate to use the word intelligence but
there's some like sort of intelligence
going on there where it was like let's
try all this a sexual thing oh it's
working let's keep doing that yeah but
actually it's like it's it's crazy like
what what is it natural selection that's
what it's going right
I was I was listening to a actually a
part of Joe Rogan's podcast yesterday
where he was I have forget who it was
that he had on but he was talking about
coyotes and how they there's I think
it's a certain species of coyote that
they we can't get rid of them right now
they're like rampant across the United
States and it's because when they do
roll call so like when they howl out at
each other if one of them is missing it
signals to the females in the pack to
mate at a faster rate and to with more
like Cubs or whatever it is so when we
kill them they actually birth more
coyotes that's like a real thing that's
crazy yeah like it's not asexual but
yeah no that's not asexual that's
natural selection yeah it's a not
meaning but it's evolutionary for as if
we did that
how about how about yeah I'm having lots
of babies lots and lots of baby there's
so many G crybabies no thanks one is
enough one G cousin
no not for a little while
or ever
the whole process of having kids weirds
me out
yeah said you've always said that the
sex yeah it's me how the smells the
tastes it's just you know the textures
route going to wet
yeah yeah I don't know yeah having kids
I would like no no kid I'm like nah I
don't have like that bag I don't see a
baby I'm like oh so cute like I'm like
that's kind of Li yeah
we're different in that way I won't like
ten do you want a colony I want to call
really yeah I want to drive like an
extended fan packed to the brim with
children a school bus
yes are they gonna be no no they're
going to be neon blue but spikey leather
outfits nice um will they bought out for
your shoulder yeah no I love kids can't
wait hmm
what age do you guys want you both want
to have kids so what
oh no idea whenever I'm financially
stable enough to I yeah I'm not no
nowhere anytime soon I'm probably
thinking like early to mid thirties so
it's probably gonna be around so six
years that's not six years well you're
gonna be 25 yeah so I said mid-thirties
gee Cross said early to mid-thirties
yeah I got some time so eight years
seven years yes maybe no no yeah I don't
know I'm in no rush
yeah me neither I don't know but I do
want to be young for my kids so I don't
want to be like grandpa trial the
baseball to Johnny you know no Johnny
I'm not gonna he's kid Johnny what's
wrong with Johnny Johnny's a great name
yeah so is Keith no he's really ugly
name keep - yeah lots of people don't
like that name
I hate that name you wanna know why
because there was a joke on Family Guy
like years ago yeah what's that was like
it was just like they were like trying
to open up a safe and like the code to
open up a safe it was like what is the
ugliest name and like ever since then
your name just hasn't been take
yeah that's all right it just like ends
really weird like Keith it's a lot it's
a lot of like first look sound is
bearish it's hard to say
and the Keith sound is just really gross
whenever I go to the bagel store up up
up at the corner and they're like kiff
that's what they write it as ki f kiff
makes me feel like I have a lisp they
always write - like like Chris one time
they wrote it as grass yeah grass and
they're like and they always confirm
with me - like I'm like grin they're
like okay grass Jesse yep I am okay we
can wrap this up
I think this was productive I thought
this was a good conversation yeah I had
fun thank you for coming thank you for
inviting me do you want to tell everyone
where we can find you like on Instagram
or like on sure you I have two
instagrams you could find my drag
peroxide underscore feminine and then
Jesse James Keitel is my actor Instagram
make sure you check them out people all
right cool
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Ep. #1 Danny Casale - Official Transcript

it's the 20-somethings podcast aren't
you excited before the show I know you
are now and so are we welcome to the
first episode of the 20-somethings
podcast
I'm your host Grant Crawford and I'm
Keith Vartanian and together we are
bringing you new guests each week new
moved improved after our show yes I
would like to think so I would think
it's kind of like group therapy so like
why wouldn't you be improve right right
yeah but anyway so most of our guests
are young go-getters making waves in
whatever industry they are involved in
our guests we have grant I'll tell you
Keith our guests range from anything
from actors to musicians to animators to
scientists to politicians they are all
over the place and it creates a really
wide and diverse show while giving you
an intimate image of all of these people
you know who else is all over the place
I mean it's true it's very true and I
deal with it all the time yeah
anyway thank you guys so much for tuning
in we really hope you enjoy the show and
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Danny Casal is on our first episode yeah
Danny it's happening right here right
now cool man coffee Dan that's his
handle if you don't know it you've
probably seen his animations being
shared by everybody on your newsfeed he
refers to himself as a bad animator he's
really not he is incredibly talented he
is an amazing mind I consider him a good
friend and it was really really awesome
to sit down with him and dig into his
mind a little bit so without further ado
here is Danny
sell the cool man
oh yeah loud and proud alright so we're
here today with Danny Casal am i
pronouncing it correctly I got asked
everybody that okay cool so you want to
tell everybody who you are what you do I
mean we'll have an introduction
separately but out of your home yeah
yeah yeah
so fuck dude so my self title keeps
changing and updating which is great
which means I'm cat like catching myself
and new chapters constantly but as of
now I call myself a bad animator like a
self-proclaimed bad animator and that's
exactly what I'm doing now and that's
exactly what I'm going full-throttle
with now is just releasing these
cartoons in my style of doodling house
doodles which is like very blobby simple
coloured but weird offbeat humor to
match it so I've been releasing those
videos too out into the world and it's
really been striking a chord so I've
been keeping steady with that and but at
the end of the day they're really just
like shitty animations like and I'm not
it's so amazing and it works it's
hilarious student yeah work is really
really funny thank you dude like so the
characters that people are seeing in the
videos now are those do they look like
synonymous to what they might find in
your like fourth-grade notebook does a
great I don't think I ever looked back
in my notebook as far as forth might be
kind of interesting to go I feel like my
drawings are definite the same as they
were
yeah I think for the most part you kind
of how you start doodling in fourth
grade is how your doodling for the rest
of your life yeah I think that's
actually the year you solidify your
doodle style yeah how much that's that's
about a person science comeback that
actually yeah my doodles are all like
very they're like patterns so I'll do
like patterns over and over again it's
not really characters but you're a
cartoonist you're just drawing like to
like my doodles they definitely look
like they did in fourth grade and they
did not look good in fourth grade yeah
stick figures though we talk not stick
figures like I evolved from the stick
figure to do the Aris the three stick s
or the 6c I don't even know what that is
so it's like you draw three lines and
then the way you connect it turns into a
pretty gangsta s like like kids would
like put that on like their tech decks
and stuff yeah
what got you cuz I know you used to do
like film stuff I remember the last time
I talked to you you were doing film
right so what got you to like switch
over into animation yeah well that's
yeah so that's why I can't like title
keeps changing cuz like right back then
I was totally like full full on
filmmaking I called myself a filmmaker
and then one day in June so almost a
year ago I had this one like really
weird 3:00 in the morning idea now when
you have a 3:00 in the morning idea
you're like I got to do it I got I'm not
gonna go to bed and lose this idea so I
did it and I just upload it to Instagram
which at the time was that two thousand
followers and which idea was that sorry
and would people know it I'm like if it
makes F Lakes oh yeah so as the snakes
have laid snakes have legs and I dropped
in a few days later I get this D I'm
saying hey this uh this big meme page
was like half a million followers just
reposted I'm like excuse me oh wow big
the mean page was called gracefully
called grandma's butthole
Oh grandma's butthole started my new
career guys oh that's great so every
sort of that kids dude it's uh it's not
a g-rated lifestyle I'm leading yeah so
yeah after that I was like okay so that
happened
and then I started getting a whole bunch
of followers a new audience which as a
content creator on the Internet
you're hungry for that yeah audience you
know so and I was hustling for like
years to try to get a new audience and
all of a sudden it was happening quickly
so I'm like okay so that video worked
I'm gonna follow up with another type of
similar styled video another cartoon to
see like what's going on here to gauge
the situation and I did that a few days
later and that one went off as well and
I'm like so this is what I'm doing now
like this is yeah this is I'm gonna do
this forever that's working right and so
I've been doing that
I guess eleven months now right and it's
it's turned into its own thing man it's
it's actually like everyday I'm just
like what the fuck why are these
animations like striking like hundreds
of thousands of well that's what I
wanted to ask you it's like what do you
think like what what is it about these
animations that's like very just
intriguing to me ville you know like
what it what why do you think it's
striking a chord because it clearly is
you know like it's doing something yeah
what can I ask you like what do you see
in them hmm I think one thing that I
appreciate about them right now like
during this time period is that they are
totally at least I know you released
them with Kanye and Donald Trump the
other day which was hilarious but the
lack of political content involved with
them it just seems very like not
ideological it's not choosing a side not
choosing a side yeah exactly and it's
just very like anybody can approach it
and anybody can take away the humor from
it yeah
kind of thing whereas I feel like right
now currently content like that is
lacking yeah it's very like content I
feel like is very divided at the moment
along with everything else content right
now is trying to go towards those things
I basically like the money and that I
guess you know but in your case it's a
great point I don't know if you've
thought about that at all but that's
what I like about it it's like I can
watch this and I'm like wow this is this
makes me feel good and also it's neutral
like it's not giving me any of that
negative I thought the same thing when I
watched it yeah that's a great great
point what you guys are bringing up
about like other click hungry websites
you know trying to be problematic
because there's a philosophy as to
that's what they think gets the clicks
while I think I completely obliterated
and debunked that theory because perfect
example like you said the Kanye West and
Donald Trump video that formula that I
put into that video you know whereas
whether you love or hate Donald Trump
whether you love or hate Kanye whether
you know what the fuck is going on
between them or don't you're gonna enjoy
this content yeah that was the same
formula that I inadvertently stumbled
upon too with snakes have legs right
same thing it's a guy believing
something he read on the Internet the
snake so the thing that he read on the
internet was that snakes do not have
legs the snake comes into frame saying
that's some dumb shit
you should stop believing everything you
read on the internet and the guy
unfriend Simon chooses to keep believing
that snakes have legs right weather no
matter what political sexual mental
spiritual no matter what you are and
what you identify as you're gonna apply
that video to your own life yeah totally
like I love this well I'm gonna apply to
your own narrative yeah so is that what
you look for do you look for those can
you when you're sitting down you're
going through your creative process are
you looking for those sort of maybe
Universal situations that you might be
able to then translate into one of these
cartoons I guess
yes of kindness subconscious type of way
with the Kanye West Donald Trump one
that was more of like a this is like a
tried and true formula that like works
no snakes have legs that worked but I
think in more of a subconscious way I'm
like where what's the it's like the
human just element here like what's the
bear like fiber of like a human being
that everyone can agree on and that's
like everyone wanting to be reminded
that they're loved and that was another
really popular one it's like my blue
Dadaab character that I titled blue dude
telling you that you're loved yeah
that's one of my favorite videos and
like that one is just I think tremendous
I mean it's amazing how rare something
like that is to come across especially
something viral that everybody's sharing
and it not be like some new-agey
bullshit you know right like it's not
like some guy from the 60s like spewing
about how we're all one it's just more a
little bit more grounded what's I think
a lot about like connecting with people
rather than trying to like sell an image
or trying to sell like an idea of
something which I think a lot of things
are doing I think it's like what you're
doing is you're connecting with you like
I don't know if you do this I do you
like talk to people in the comments
section of your YouTube videos or you
talk to people like in the comment
section your Instagram or anything all
the time yeah and that's a that's
awesome like that's connecting with
people rather than trying to like sell
like these big media companies are these
big you know production companies are
selling images you're not selling images
you're just connecting with people on
like a human level right with a story
and then connecting with them in the
comments and that's what drives so much
you know you were shipped here to your
channel that's awesome that was always
like the philosophy with with me like I
wish more content creators just
communicated with their audience hey yo
thank you yeah there's a really good
philosophy with someone that I really
fuck with his name is Gary Vee Gary
Vaynerchuk
yeah look I love all right so you know
so he be a great piece of advice
that he kind of spews is always respond
to your audience
and when you don't know what to say just
say thanks yep hmm he spent like the
first three years I think on Twitter he
responded to every single person that
reached out him on Twitter like every
single one but there is not a time that
someone tweeted at him for his first
three years on Twitter that he didn't
reply back at least something and it's
so simple to see why that works you know
it's so easy like straightforward advice
and we're building a friendship you're
building a relationship with something I
do that on a mass scale like that's
amazing
right that's what that's what content
creation is now yeah seems like people
are really responding to knowing who's
on the other side of that you know who's
on the other side of this content and
now more than ever that we have the
ability to do that what we're doing
right here is this is coming straight
from the source there's no publishing
company in that it's going through
there's no network that it's going
through it is leaving our mouths going
into the microphones I will edit it like
I'm minimal now yeah and then it's going
on the internet and anybody can assume
that it's right for us what no just
minimal editing ie like totally muting
my track yeah oh it's a bad joke sorry
like going down is down no I saw it
reminds me of my love life and it's
adorable
yeah ya know there's something really a
potent about the guy that you're
watching or girl that you're watching
hitting you back and saying yo thank you
thank you I appreciate this or like
answering a question you had about like
their equipment or something or like you
know just showing love man it's like
yeah if you have like you know thousands
or millions of people showing you love
you know take some time out of your day
to respond to a few hundred or like a
hundred you know like it's work and I'm
like realizing that more and more like
it's fucking work dude and you know
Gary's on some level he's on a Gary
hustle like he coined the word hustle I
feel but you know he's like it's it's
it's work it is work to like go in open
up your mail and you know respond to
always people read it you know watch it
in context this that it could be like
jarring but it goes so far
dude it goes so far because just it does
a few things but I feel like what it
does most is it solidifies audience
creator relationship mm-hmm and that's
probably the most important thing that
you could have do you notice that people
are like fault like if you respond to
someone like you notice that they follow
you or like I mean I'm sure you notice
that more at the beginning stages but
yeah well I well so I think most people
are already following yeah but when I do
respond it's a solid amount of the time
they're like oh my god I didn't think
you respond right that's awesome let
like well it's unfortunate they don't
think you respond but totally
understandable and like you know you
know people are rocking like tens and
millions of followers they probably
don't see these things but right but
it's so important that you do it goes a
long way it does it does and I think you
know this this goes back to just again
human nature people are hungry for
contact you know in this technology
world people want human human contact
and when you respond it's like oh
there's someone on the other side of the
screen yeah like that's real a real
thing so yeah yeah it's important and
it's it's special yeah it's funny
because I work I work in college
classrooms at the moment I work in
English classes and what I like the
prompts that seems to be like spread out
in all of these English classes that
work and it's like does technology like
help relationships like help people
socialize or does it hinder that right
and it's like I always find it difficult
to argue on the side of no it's making
socializing worse I mean I see why
people say that like I guess
face-to-face socializing like maybe kids
might not be developing those skills as
I guess rapidly as they used to but as
far as like making those connections and
offering people a less lonely life I
feel like now we're living in like the
least lonely time period that has ever
existed on the planet
yeah and I think that you know like in
today's day and age where you're able to
connect with so many people at one time
like that like you said although at the
same time we might be living in like the
lease but we might be living in the most
lonely time period you know because
you're you might be connecting with the
ton of people but you're still sitting
behind a camera to nobody
so just pointing devil's advocate it's a
different yeah it's a different type of
lonely I mean definitely can't say that
well instead of beating around the bush
I'll speak from personal experience so
growing up I had I didn't feel like I
connected with any of my friends in real
life though just the way it was I was
growing up on Long Island and I have
friends to this day that from Long
Island that I love well part of Long
Island's Glen Cove okay so it was just
like not a very artsy area but I
shouldn't say I didn't connect with my
friends cuz the friends I had were great
but for the most part I didn't feel like
I was connecting with like a majority of
the student body or this or that you
know like typical angsty teen shit
whatever you know it's common amongst
people like us who moved to the city so
but so throughout that time I was making
YouTube videos and I was shed a light
that there were other creators like me
as weird as me doing the same thing from
all parts of the world and my Friday
nights weren't going out and you know
hanging out with my high school friends
it was me on skype with these
motherfuckers you know people from
fucking California this one guy from
Canada all around the country out of the
country but he's great and we would have
like these big Skype calls and that was
my social life we would talk you know
for hours yeah and I love those and I
look forward to them so many of those
guys and tight with to this day and we
call each other often and
we hang out with each other often like
and most of them are like really
successful with like new savvy
businesses and like you know it's like
oh so that paid off it's a real
relationship because we're still talking
and we still get joy out of talk to each
other but it wasn't formulated through
the traditional means of forming a
friendship school
through the people that you grow up
around it was because of the window that
is the internet that didn't exist just a
generation before so the Internet in
that sense gave me my community that
like were like me yeah and you know
whether or not that maybe it would have
been better if I didn't have that and I
went out and like I was like forced to
like socialize with the people that were
like actually around me I don't know is
a good argument there but I think I mean
like that's you know those are your
friends you know so I don't think
technology is ruining the younger
generation in America like like people
like to say I think we need no I know
yeah I think we'd need to adapt you know
as like and I think those people don't
see the adaptation that was someone like
you saw yeah a being able to connect
with people you know
wow you know you're still connecting but
you just doing in a different way
right and referent is like scary yeah
well yeah you know it's different it's
unnatural it's like the Wild West right
now yeah like nobody knows what what the
fuck is going on yeah including the US
government like no you know ie the
Zuckerberg trial that's going on right
dude i sat here in this desk watching
him on trial for like three hours live
and I was like blown away I was like
there's no idea what's going on well
they didn't know what they were asking
oh no yeah they didn't understand what
my guess how Facebook operated luckily
he was texting he was like if I text my
wife about black panther like well other
people be able to see you know like he's
like no yeah he's like
what's at and I type the word black
panther his facebook note it was like
you it was like he like had a bucket of
words and he just kind of hey yeah yeah
hold whatever came out dude that was
ugly dude that was it was only on both
sides though because they didn't know
what they were talking about and he was
like so robotic like I think he I don't
that good the best of his ability but he
was just like so like he looked really
scared almost and like taken aback that
he was even there that this was he looks
like he's a lizard in humans yeah it
looks like I hope they don't notice I'm
a lizard right yeah yeah yeah no that
was uh it was just a whack situation
that was going on yeah but how scary is
it that the people the politicians that
are in charge of what happens what the
internet doesn't know how it works
yeah it's terrifying yep you know
meanwhile they're talking to you know
Zuckerberg about you know restricting
the doubt and whatever and they're doing
the same goddamn thing with the new the
new laws that they're putting in place
with the FCC and shit you know oh yeah
net neutrality it's like it's the same
thing it's like collecting everyone's
data and selling it off to companies
yeah they why are we getting on Facebook
for doing it when you're putting into
the you know into law that anyone can do
it it's it's I wonder how that's gonna
affect content creators net neutrality
it doesn't seem pretty no it doesn't
seem pretty um but it's tough man III
have this like a shining light of hope
that the content creator community will
always find a way to make it work
and maybe that means like bringing it
more into real life you know what I mean
like something weird and wild and maybe
something is formed that we can't even
like imagine right now but you know more
and more dude like we're seeing social
media and real life totally like overlap
and I really want to like personally
experiment with that with my own brain
and my own audience by like officially
hosting the
first meetup in New York for me and I
feel like that's gonna be just a wild
day dude
no it's really cool yeah but I feel like
that's gonna be like mentally nuts like
you're gonna see all these numbers kind
of roll up and you know like confirm
that they're actual human beings yeah
although like I try to remind myself of
that every day if it's easy to not
really looking at a number and on a page
yeah it's not as conceivable as you've
seen the masses yeah yeah like 50 people
in one room is a lot of people like you
know but 50 followers you're like get
out of here yeah it's like so it's
there's that like whole thing but yeah
man I don't know like I think if if the
government got all weird and and dumb
with the laws I think the content
creative community would find a way to
make it work you know we're all stuck
outside of content creators - like we're
at this the first time ever we're
obviously corporations have a lot of
power and that's bad in a lot of ways
but it's good in a lot of ways that
people like Elon Musk's can be like
we're just gonna create our own internet
now you know like like like and same
with Amazon - like these companies
there's a lot of bad that comes along
with these companies like walking the
fine line between being like successful
on a monopoly but at the same time now
we have these companies that can like
create infrastructure which is never
happened before it's always had to be
the government that creates
infrastructure well the government's I
mean some like like if you pull up
Amazon like you look at like Trump right
now with the way he's treating Amazon
trying to like shoot it down it's why
are you doing that Amazon's not going
anywhere
advantage the post office he's saying
they're taking advantage of the post
yeah
there's more politicians spinning
straight gibberish I know I know it's
ridiculous I don't know about you but
like it's kind of become white noise to
me like and that sounds really bad to
say but I feel like to get through my
day I have to kind of just like oh do
you have it out here like and just push
it further away how unfortunate it would
be if it wasn't white noise you know if
I mean it was like that for a while for
me like for a while it was like I had
these speakers on full volume all day
every day and like it really stressed me
out and I finally like delete the news
app off my phone and like say like I
cannot let this control my life yeah for
a long time I was letting like current
events like really like seep into my
life and it was really toxic could you
feel better now feel way better now I
feel so much better now it gets to a
point of like you know I I start feeling
the weight of the world on my shoulders
what I'm consuming that all the time and
I'm like part of them only like this one
human so I'm like I want to select be
like like provide some sort of salvation
for the world but I get really upset I'd
like my limited amount like my capacity
of doing that and a lot of so that
conflict was like really weighing heavy
on me yeah so I guess like letting go of
like that constant intake of news was
also like letting go of some of that
responsibility right yeah yeah I I I
think in a way I was always like totally
turned off by staying that up-to-date
with everything which is not to say like
I don't want to be in the know and like
generally know what's going on for my
own safety in my own well-being and it's
good to know what's going on in the
world it is but it's just tough man like
III feel bad for I don't even want to
say young kids I just think anybody
would no matter what age you are and you
want to get into the news and you want
to get into current events see what's
going on and educate yourself so toxic
it's so like oh yeah let's click back to
what you're supposed to tell you to go
to right
okay BBC you know I agree babies are PVC
yeah not even NPR though because NPR and
I've noticed that more and more
ever since the 2016 election like the
left has gone far yes then the right has
gone far right yeah yeah and so NPR
which NPR is a pretty central and it's
more central than CNN I don't know I
think it's more I think I don't know I I
don't really listen to much NPR news I
just listen to the content you gotta go
on their website their you know their
headline their headlines aren't like
CNN's headlines I guess yeah I mean CNN
CNN is just like having a fucking field
day with Russia yeah that's all they
care about are like Russia Russia Russia
can't go you can't go to the website you
can't you can't even go on Facebook yeah
it's I don't know why it just came to my
head but I was thinking about so vice is
like essentially like trash now yes that
yeah which is so unfortunate man face
was it had a lot of yeah so did some
really good writers in there and
everything what made you like be like
nasus trash all right well so everything
but really so Dan Harmon creator of Rick
and Morty yeah
posted this screenshot on Instagram of I
guess vice was having a slow day maybe
their days are getting slower and slower
they dug up an interview interview that
they had with Dan Harmon back in 2015 so
I guess like they needed to push out an
article that day they would get a lot of
clicks and they couldn't get a new
interview with him or they didn't want
to for the motive of this particular
article so they dug up an old interview
and they said they titled it what was it
something like why Dan Harmon is into
incest in the in season three of Rick
and Morty like something like that and
it was like pretty much trying to paint
him as like oh fucking weirdo like yeah
yeah gross
trying to become the next national
headline basically yeah yeah trying to
like pervert Dan Harmon for making like
one joke about incest maybe once like in
Rick and Morty which is an producers
right yeah this guy's sexual and
philosophical orientation but so he
screenshotted that and he totally like
put them on blast but like in a very
like Dan Harmon way which is like listen
I get advice like those sprint phones
are gonna sell themselves because there
was a spring I have next to it yeah just
like like legit like that's how it is
man like these outlets especially
bloggers
yeah I'm line click bait shit they're
just trying to get clicks man because we
got to get paid is that money and it's
so unfortunate if that's how you do it's
how a bad it's really bad when like that
mentality gets into the press yeah like
that that that's really that's like this
topia you know and like the money gets
that heavily it's getting me involved
and dictates what the press is saying
the thing is it's getting there and
everyone knows it and yet it's still
going there you know like everyone is
calling out the media being like stop
putting up clickbait stop saying the
same thing over and over again stop at
the rushes stuff until you have some
real hard story
you know like same thing with it's it
goes on the left and the right mm-hmm I
feel like everyone's saying that but the
but more people are not or they're
saying it about the other side yeah yeah
you know more people are just like
clicking you know like yeah they just
continue to click it seems like it's
like well it is like a human condition
thing it's like when you see something
that is different or like instills fear
like it just immediately opens up those
gates of curiosity or those those gates
of anxiety and you need to like get to
the bottom of it and that's what a lot
of the clicking is now it's like I need
to make sure everything is okay I need
to make sure like I feel safe I need to
make sure our country's not going under
and that that's a lot of power well it's
like people love to be told over and
over again that they're right and
everyone else is wrong
yeah how great is that
like if all your friends and family
called you every day no actually no
you're right like right right everything
you believe in is totally correct and
anything that you think is wrong is
actually you're totally right it's wrong
like they're wrong you're also and they
be told you're being fed that every day
that people live off that shit yeah it's
like injecting straight fuckin dopamine
it's your stereo it's it's you know and
that's how people people live now like
people literally live their lives now
thinking they are correct all the time
they curate their social media timeline
with only people that share their
philosophy yeah well they're curating it
and also face these smells rhythm is
generating it so on two levels that's
happening right that's interesting we
were talking before we start recording
we were talking about Jordan Peterson
that's like his big thing the big thing
he's afraid of it's like this strong
identity with ideology to the point
where everything you're saying is just
getting bounced back at you in like an
echo chamber yeah right he's like
identifying so strongly with an ideology
leads to very bad place well we're not
happening right now like he says Yeah
right exactly it's like like that
well you're really explaining of like
just constantly being met with yeah
that's right yeah you're correct there
is no point of conflict and therefore
progress can't take place right like at
the point of conflict is where progress
happens and as long as everybody's
agreeing with you those conversations
aren't given the space to unfold and
like no you know and in addition to that
like this whole political correctness
thing too is kind of acting in the same
way with like everybody knows like
there's a line of political correctness
that is amazing and like super
productive and like creates a more
sensitive society at the same time when
you're too politically correct you're
sore just like putting a band-aid over
some things right like when things
aren't being said for fear of being
punished or like castrated and then like
shunned then that means those people are
just going to embody those things
they would have said otherwise right you
know right yeah yeah I I you know the
saying diamonds are made under pressure
oh right yeah been like that yep
comes to mind because it's you're not
gonna learn shit if your opinions aren't
challenged and even something that I
deeply like believe in like the root of
my soul challenge that shit I welcome
you like totally you know I'm not
passionate about anything except
anything enough except maybe like the
love I have for like my mom and dad
maybe the Prophet like my family like
why would you even challenge that though
like I'm not certain about anything else
though you know what I mean lion yeah it
tell me this guy ain't blue dude I want
to hear that argument you know I do why
why do people attach these ideas so
strongly like like grip them choke them
to death you know like the ideas though
like everything outside of what he was
saying like so somebody guns you know oh
yeah I mean that's like a very like just
I'm just saying like gods like
interesting controversy so like that's
what I meant like people identify it's
so much a part of their identity that
any attack on it is a personal attack
you're not attacking the law you're
attacking them yes it's funny though
because I agree but I was just on
Twitter earlier today and I commented on
some story that was going around about
about gun control and I ended up getting
into this conversation with this guy who
was a he's a right-wing yeah I know I
don't know we ended up going back and
forth for like tweet after tweet after
tweet and he only had like 12 followers
so there's like but it was it was fun it
was an engaging conversation but me and
him about very different views yeah on
gun control and like you would think
that with our different views who would
have just bashed the whole time and in
the beginning we did bash but then as we
were able to just talk to each other and
hear each other out we were able to come
to like a mutual agreement on what
should be done about gun control that's
huge yeah huge I gotta sing green calf
that shit I know seriously like
we came to it really like we both
followed each other was a really good
conversation was really productive yeah
and he saw like the problems with too
many people having guns or he saw stuff
that he hadn't seen before
yeah it was just it was a productive
conversation and it doesn't happen
enough and it's because people are too
involved in their own little circle they
don't want epic that was this an older
guy like your your age all right I think
he he looked like he was probably like
late 20s early 30s I'd say okay yeah but
he was very like pro-gun I he I think he
said he was from like the Midwest or
something but one of the points he made
like it was about like the whole thing
was centered around gun shows and how
you can go to gun shows and buy guns
without a background check and he was
like well I went to a gun show and I had
to do like a 30 minute you know
background check and we had this
conversation I was like listen that's
not the case in all states some states
have different laws and everything he
didn't know these things
yeah so just in like giving information
him giving me information back it
created this new relationship and
there's a new like cohesive bond of like
okay we agree on this and now let's move
forward with this if everyone could do
that right so much shit would get done
no yeah yeah but like you were saying
before we we so much prefer comfort and
completely within the group that we
within our community you know yeah
that's really big dude the fact that
that happened it's like actually
borderline on her Huff on Twitter yeah
absolutely it doesn't know you should
fucking pat yourself on the back yeah
cuz that's good shit people got to do
more of that man I mean you know oh dude
I was think about today actually during
the during the election 2016 right just
like my timeline dude just like watching
all your friends like go after each
other's next dude like yeah heaviness
beasts it was crazy
um I was so like demotivated to even go
on that at during that election but yeah
I just remember like you guys remember
like everyone just unfriending each
other yeah and I'm like yeah that is
unless they
threatened you or like insulted your
grandma or like something real bad but
people were unfollowing each other or
defriending like totally unfriending
each other over opposing political views
yeah and that goes back to what I was
saying about curating the content like
you're just gonna keep on friending
people until all you see is your own
view in that echo chamber and that was
like when I first started like really
being like exposed to like how bad that
is for society
so I member making this this this status
as a joke back then I was like
everyone's gonna unfriend each other and
tell like no one has any friends on
Facebook and you're just friends with
yourself and then you're gonna even
unfriend yourself and then the world
explodes because that's what I've never
seen this girl it got real ugly man I've
never seen this girl talk to her uncle
like on public on blast in front of all
their Facebook for their entire Facebook
community um this girl was straight
talking to her uncle like he was a
stranger like and this uncle was I guess
he was a trump supporter I guess and the
uncle was like let's say her name was
Molly I don't know his uncle was like
Molly please like you know I love you
that's all that should matter I love you
and she was like fuck you did a bunch of
thumbs up from her friends mm-hmm shit
talking and disrespecting a family
member and then she blocked her own
uncle dude and that's how that ended it
was pretty its family bad and it does
shows how divided it is right now that
people are willing to cut family ties
yeah and the funny thing with this
thanksgiving do you really like it's
funny to observe though that everybody
went up to 2016 not having these issues
with each other you know and like once
these conversations start happening it
was like you're a different person yeah
are you any different than you were last
week you know how how are you any
different than you were before 2016 yeah
you know you still and that to me is
kind of interesting because it's
were so quick to dehumanize the other
party but at the same time like we were
living quite compatibly up until that
point in time like there wasn't much
there's obviously always like you know
don't bring up politics and over the
holidays but it wasn't it wasn't posting
a status like if you voted for Trump
please unfriend me which I saw a ton of
do you guys this is like a poll
happening here right right now real-time
do you guys feel a slight noticeable a
slight but noticeable pressure to keep
more quiet than loud on the day-to-day
basis comes with your opinions yes yeah
and I think you want to get over I can
go no go ahead go ahead I think because
I'm a person and all three of us are and
we know a lot of people who put
ourselves out there as a figure who a
creator a musician an animator an actor
it's a scary thing to think about
somebody may be like disregarding you
for a political belief that you hold or
something that you say and that sounds
shitty to say and I wish that wasn't the
case but that's like the reality of it
right like if you release a video you
have tons of followers you have tons of
viewers and it was so far right how
would that go over you know like that's
the beauty of your content like we were
talking about earlier is that it's so
neutral like you you've hit that it's
it's it's great and it's so relaxing and
and amusing and like consumable but I
can't imagine as soon as you strike that
wrong chord right like what what would
what would happen right what would
happen to your your bass you know like
look what's what's happening with Kanye
yeah yeah just we were just watching the
TMZ video like right before you got here
yeah did you see that
no oh
he's he's saying crazy things like
people chose to be slaves for 400 years
and like he was going off I mean dude
he's but he was shouting he was addicted
to opioids and stuff I was saying to you
and we were watching it like he looked
like someone that knew he was losing a
ton of followers when he was like
reaching out to that whole lot like he
looked at things in his eyes because you
realize like oh shit dude I feel really
odd for him to be honest I feel like
that is just like the pressure of Fame
and it's actually quite ironic that this
was having on TMZ cos shit like TMZ just
like wrangling and like sucking the keep
like that go a lot of them yeah oh yeah
yeah no that's not to be fucked with is
like your personal space at the very
least and TMZ doesn't even give you that
right they're all up in your face with
like these like freelance ass weirdos
with a camera yeah yeah so well Kanye
West seems to be voicing his opinion
which is fine and should happen more
what's interesting though is people are
like really like lashing out on him and
like and I'm politically neutral I don't
really care for anyone right now
but it's it seems like and I think he
might have touched upon this or maybe
like chance did no I'm in support of
Kanye don't quote me on this but I think
someone said you know how are we gonna
fight hate with hate yeah guys like you
know I'm trying to form this
relationship with the president the
United States here and kind of just show
some love and yeah yeah just not
standing for yeah I think his idea is a
good idea his idea too you know like you
said no you can't fight hate with hate
we can't just keep hitting each other
keep bashing keep bashing we need to
have conversations I don't like the
Twitter conversation we need to have
conversations with each other
Kanye needs to have a conversation with
Trump right but it's the way that he did
it like it's the way that you know you
can't post a picture of yourself and I
make
America great again hat yeah and then
tweet that you're supporting Donald
Trump when you well know and that you
both have dragon energy yeah like he was
going crazy with it but then it's also
like he then admitted that he has no
idea what he's talking about in terms of
politics like he admitted he's like I
don't have any sides because I don't
know anything that's going on and it's
you yes you should be allowed to voice
your opinion but you have to have some
responsibility as a person of influence
to check yourself and check what you're
talking about
yeah before you get on the air or get on
the Twitter and be like oh this is do
you know this is the right way you don't
know we talked about you know she has
like a very general idea of what he
wants to say yeah like turned the lens
and like focus on how he wants to like
so universal and so awesome but he just
didn't go about it in the right way and
I think he's facing the backlash that
now but I think what he's doing is
productive yeah yeah I mean for sure I I
will also say like you you left the room
but I continue to watching the TMZ
interview and once he settles down like
he's not as incoherent as those little
like snippets that you're getting right
like those five-second snippets that
people are sharing on Facebook
okay I'm saying that you know people
chose to be slaves that's all I saw all
day which is why I want to watch it was
that clip being shared over and over
again right and it's taken at it he says
it but it's a little bit out of context
how it's taken another you know yeah he
takes a while to get to his points
almost like he wheezed he's like really
elaborate you know he's right and that's
what I'm saying he has like these nice
thoughts he just doesn't know how to
articulate yeah and I think that's
what's getting him into trouble yeah
there's a video just what you remind me
about Kanye taking off taking a while he
really yeah he drags shit out there's
this video like a few months ago that
was going viral of him at one of his
concerts and it was like something like
sixty to seventy five seconds of
straight applause well just
and then as like once it finally started
to die debt died down he went into the
song and there's just another eruption
like of applause but like that was so
crazy to watch and he was just like
standing there like and then every time
like he raised his microphone and their
applause would like go back up and he
would put it back down it would be like
crazy it was like just like totally
exercising like your influence like what
you're saying um but that was like a
funny way of doing it no it's like a
little crazy yeah man I I don't know
like but I think that answers your
question to go back like about like what
would happen if you like chose like a
crazy radical side with the amount of
and I got like a fucking fraction of a
fraction of what Kanye has yeah shit
right exactly so that's like he's
actually like the example of like what
would happen if a celebrity of his tier
did something like exactly what he did
and he actually did it and now we're
seeing what happens it's crazy man it's
it's crazy like man I I don't know if
like people like chancer like trying to
back up you know they're homies but like
I would hope that other people don't
quiet down yeah I would hope that's not
the case I mean you know people's
managing teams and management teams
would you know definitely advocate that
they do for like you know the sake of
their brand but uh I hope I hope people
don't get more quiet you know I know
chance came out and he tweeted a thing
that was like well I don't agree with
what he's saying about Trump I do agree
about all these other things that he's
trying to say like not all black people
need to be yeah it's what I saw it's not
is really important to say yeah because
it's like I know this just from talking
to friends of mine like if you're a
black person as you are everybody I'll
just say that though yeah it's like an
auto it's one of those things it's like
you I imagine like in the in a black
community like you can't say that in the
same way like in our bubbles that we
live in here in New York if I was like
yeah I really support Trump you
well a lot of my friends would come at
me saying that but saying that you don't
you not you don't need to be a Democrat
right like saying that like some like a
black person doesn't need to be a
Democrat doesn't necessarily mean that
you need to be a Republican Yeah right
no like I don't just because you're not
that's and that's another huge problem
that's happening right now is because oh
you're not this so you must be this yeah
you know and just because you're not a
Democrat doesn't mean that you need to
go over here maybe there's something
like over in this little area that you
can find yourself in it's like just
because Obama was a Democrat now that's
like that's what you have to write and
like and the left has become this one
you know even though it's this big
bubble it's like this stake at the far
end of the bubble and the right even
though it's this big bubble of what the
right is there's a stake at the far end
of the right and those things are what
the the party is viewed as and it's not
right yeah there's so much in the middle
that should be explosion is no longer
allowed yeah no no yeah I mean which is
awful like that like you're saying
there's so much in the middle most of it
is in the middle mm-hmm 95 to 99 percent
of it is probably in the middle and
should be in the middle I just I think
people find too much comfort in like
total assurance yeah people are fucking
lazy dude like people want to label it
as like it you know if I want to like a
label this like like would feel much
better if it was just labeled as remote
instead of individually labeling all the
technology and wire and chipping and
like soldering gun glue that went into
it well right that's another but like
that's fucking what it is dude yeah
people just feel so much better about
you know total blanket statements bro
and simplicity that is not good for the
most part yeah not good it really
actually like fucks up you you like your
own well-being man I mean if you're
gonna walk around blind because you
you're like putting this like blanket a
statement about around a very complex
philosophy that deserves to be like you
should touch upon all the little details
that come underneath it I'm out of
respect for yourself and other people
that you know
may want to either also support your
your opinion or challenge it like I
don't know I'm totally like saying some
gibberish right now but it's it's we're
live in a fuck world guys is what I'm
saying yeah they've been a total fucked
situation right now yeah but there's so
much good in the world as well which was
another one of my videos that I wanted
to remind people is how much good there
is in the world yeah how do you how do
you do you have any advice for content
creators that are trying not to choose
sides and like how do you figure out
your way to to make that image that we
talked about at the beginning of the
podcast like how do you how do you
navigate that so that you're not on this
side and not on the side you're just
kind of making content yeah I don't know
if you can not like articulate that but
yeah man I think it just all goes back
to like me finding like what's the
universal message here yeah you know
it's like no matter what side of
politics you're on everyone for the most
part loves puppies so I'm gonna make a
video about puppies yeah yeah exactly
or like loves like hot chocolate or
fucking I don't know the smell of a
flower I don't know like stuff like that
like you know there's there's so much
shit like it's it's weird right like my
stuff is overly simplified drawing and
the message inside it are also
oversimplified what's odd is that in the
current state of the world that we find
ourselves in is people are hungry for
that simple shit yeah the simple stuff
is like the RET it becomes rare yeah
everyone agrees on it yeah in a world
where everyone's finding reasons every
reason possible to disagree everyone can
agree that puppies are adorable you know
like and there's there's something to
that and I think that starts the maybe
maybe that would be the first domino
topple to make you know remind you that
we're all in this together like we're
all humans we all cry when so
we love dies you know yeah I think your
work is like an excellent example of
what happens when you tap into that you
know like a very very nice side of
humanity and reassuring reassuring side
of humanity for danger man
no I appreciate that but yeah so you
mentioned your siblings and your family
before and I'm curious how they support
what you're doing and what they I guess
like what they mean to you in this
entire process the creative process cuz
yeah as I just said I live right next to
my little brother we're both creative
people and we both support each other
with that it's really some important
relationship to me in my own creativity
like I'm constantly sending him my
poetry he's constantly sending me his
music and it's a it's a very very poetry
newsletter like you text people in
poetry right ITEX I think so I think you
you know that because like sex Micky my
poetry yeah yeah yeah I do know that
yeah happy for that reason yeah it's
it's actually really funny that Mickey
has kind of been like this wall between
you and I like I feel like yeah you're
not a wall but like a glass door spoken
like a true poet yes yeah we've never
acted like this is the first time that
you and I have sort of like connected
without I guess Mickey around I think so
this thing I think the first time I met
you I immediately casted you as a
homeless person for my shorts that's
true yeah I was in one of your short
films yeah it's so funny and like last
minute of yeah yeah all right I remember
and I'm not an actor and you're just
like yeah I just like seeing the ground
look homeless no it's like I remember
that was senior year yeah always always
typecast as either homeless and took
today my boss walked out of the office
shoes like does anybody tell you that
you just look like a more like hip Jesus
and I was like yeah all the time yeah
it's definitely a the compliment version
of homeless yes Jesus is sexy I don't
care Jesus also looks how dude he's oh
gee sexy yeah he's got that Jesus um
he's a biblical babe yeah it's evidently
you ever fuck with alliteration I'm
totally not answering your questions
yeah anyway anyway
but wait so we were going we were
talking about poetry newsletter then
we're talking about me yeah so my family
yeah yeah yeah back to that
mm-hmm sit so pretty much um a family
always supportive man which is a
blessing it goes back like a specific it
might have been the like they always
supported me like my dad like heard
about this thing called an iMac and in
2006 he bought me one and it was like
that was the game changer like me
learning iMovie since I was like 10 11
years old like that was a and I'm like
fortune to like be in that situation
like you know I totally recognized like
how much extra it is of a hustle for
people that don't have that don't have
you know that family member that buys
them that but that's also not to say
that I I'm spoiled like I'm currently
like hustling every month to pay my own
rent and put food in my stomach
although my parents are well capable of
you know paying my shit like I they know
that that wasn't gonna happen like there
was the agreement that if I were gonna
move out I have to pay so it's like they
instill a lot of that you know in like
the character and but a specific it
probably was the first time where I
realized that wow my parents like really
recognize and support what I'm doing was
I was like maybe in 10th grade in high
school and I was like really trying to
make a like really trying to rush out a
YouTube video in time for Christmas
because that was what was important to
me and but we had to go Christmas tree
shopping which is a family thing so like
I go and you know I think it just
started taking longer than I scheduled
in my busy 10th grade 15 year old thing
but I start getting like really stressed
I'm like I'm not gonna finish this in
time and you know this video needs to be
out tonight and done I'm not done
editing and my mom drove me home
she left the other guys there they said
I'll drop you home and I was like well
shit like you know I think that's when
they more or less started recognizing
like that this was like it this is like
a real thing and that's almost like now
it's like truly becoming a real thing
like um but back then like I was getting
like a check like every month for like
200 bucks from YouTube revenue and that
was really cool um and that kind of like
legitimize like lid like the legitimacy
of making YouTube videos I guess was I
don't know maybe maybe like validated
because there's like monetary gain um
which I guess for most people is like
confirms that it's like worth your time
and energy after um but that was the
first time ever that only my mom drove
me home from Christmas tree shopping and
that was like you know clear indication
that they support what I'm doing so yeah
nothing but support um and I also get
like a lot like my humor is totally
derived from the humor I have with them
awesome and yeah dude it's like a true
luxury when you you know fuck with your
family yes yeah yeah what are your
parents do so they're both business
people you know my dad is CEO of his own
company and my mom works with him and
they're like Walt not Wall Street but
Wall Street tight like you know they
give you is like you know suits and in
business and all that but uh you know I
think there's like a I never used this
word but I think I'm about to and I'm
hoping I'm gonna use it correctly
misnomer there's like a Mis
misconception is that the same thing now
I don't know I don't know I'd have to
look at is that a word misnomer it is a
word it is it is a word I don't use it
so I'm not gonna use it it's a
misconception that you know people like
like parents that
like business-oriented won't support the
art like the Mart's that are naturally
found in their their children yeah but
that's not the case with mine I guess
with my scenario which is good
we're they were either of them like ever
creatives do they have do they dance did
they do yeah yeah yeah I guess that
helps right yeah yeah like especially am
I like I guess my dad you know he like
drew a little bit as a kid and played
guitar and all that they probably like
see the joy that you have in in like
damn yeah Joey that I had as a kid
totally now if I was what I am now 22
and not making a penny yeah it's a
different story like you know you gotta
recognize what it is like it's like
either like get a job and do this as a
side hustle or you know do something
else like I get it yeah awesome and
you're able to support yourself with it
yeah there's really something like so
like rewarding and beautiful about
parents that don't instill under yeah
like I'm not like like yes helicopter
parents that are always hovering around
but like for instance like my dad is an
architect and he played football in
college like he was a college football
player
not once growing out was my dad like you
have to play football like I want you to
play yeah my whole idea six coach and
yeah I didn't do gymnastics until I was
in tenth grade yeah you know like I he
could have very easy been like you're
gonna be a gym rat right you're gonna be
in the gym with me and he coached while
I was a kid that could have been in the
I was in the gym with him but he never
pressured me to go on the floor and
that's what made me want to do it yeah I
feel like if he did pressure me it would
have been like yeah it's like it's like
a lot of parents like I see it in my
friends ID not in my own experience but
I see it in my friends and other people
it's like when they have a kid they're
like yes I want to make the clone
version of myself
well yeah I'm going to make you me but a
better version and you're gonna do
everything like me but just a bit better
right you know good intentions you know
no it's totally good intentions but at
the same time imagine like being the kid
who just has like that natural talent
for a guitar
or something like that and dad's yeah
and that's like you got a got to pick up
the baseball yeah well yes even like I I
think playing along with that it's like
even worse when all those a healthy
version of it than unhealthy version of
it where the parents don't want their
kids to well one my senior I think like
what I'm saying is like when a when a
parent went through something maybe like
a shortcoming like they didn't like go
to school because of a football
scholarship let's say and they want to
live vicariously through their kid and
like make sure not only they get into
football but get into college on that
football scholarship to like make up for
their own shortcomings that's an
unhealthy version of it I think the
healthy version of it is like yo I grew
up broke I don't want you to grow up bro
yeah no definitely no definitely there's
there's a line right there's a line that
can be crossed like you know my mom her
her dad was like a raging alcoholic so
she was like I'm not gonna drink alcohol
while I race you and that's like you
know like that's a commendable qualities
embody as a parent yeah but you know
like you were saying like when you start
casting your dreams like you see it on
these Dance Moms like on that show it's
like all of these Dance Moms are literal
dancers it's like that is that kind of
parenting at its worst like theater
mostly yeah yeah yeah but like if you
like what you said like with the
hard-working like I was broke so you're
not gonna be broke yeah that's go if
you've listened to Gary Vee talk about
the way his parents oh yeah raised him
yeah it's very much like that because he
talks about how the reason he's so
successful is because he grew up in an
immigrant household and he firmly
believes it yeah he firmly believes that
the immigrant mentalities that's why
basically immigrants perform better they
have higher salaries first-generation
immigrants because they're still to
worth it yeah and then but on second
generation because they see it in their
parents and they're like damn I don't
want to have to like trudge through the
shit like my parents did so I'm gonna
make a really nice life for myself and
that's what Gary Vee did yes I think
everyone needs that immigrant
in County a little bit everybody needs
to pressure crazy yeah gary is that he
he fuckin lived in the same house as his
dad growing up and never saw him because
that's how much his dad worked yeah dad
would come home every night I like 2:00
in the morning and then leave like five
or six or whatever five or six the next
Gary would grow up living in the same
house as dad and didn't see him for like
11 years yeah thing
not once because the dad would never
even come to like birthday get like
birthday games a birthday or like
softball or football games or baseball
games whatever um and Gary also touched
upon about like how he didn't really
mind that cuz he knew his dad was busy
working to provide yeah really
interesting guy stuff that he showed me
but I haven't like read the books or
encounter even really gotten really much
into his longer videos his crushing a
book is really I don't know if you've
read any of his books but his I saw I
met Gary oh did you yeah yeah that's
moto after this that's great yeah a few
weeks like two to three weeks ago was
he's like explosive in person as he is
yes fucking it's crazy dude like I'm
meeting all these people that like are
my role models and you know I only get
to experience them through watching
their videos yeah and then you meet them
in real life and they're exactly which
is great dude they're exactly like they
are on their videos that's why they're
so successful which is awesome
yeah Gary I got like I was in the office
and he happened to be there and I got to
grab like two minutes and grab a picture
and compliment him did you ask him
anything I didn't ask him anything no I
made an animation for him back in
October and I think it finally caught up
to him oh that's really cool so d-roc
the guy who I went to meet said this is
the guy that made that dragon animation
and it was like a dragon telling you to
hustle and yes although and out he was
like oh shit like he was just like
totally just totally Gary like it was
really cool and like really humbling and
but he's such a humbling guy he is
because
I was just like you know thank you for
everything man your team is like really
nice and like everything's like like
very inspiring here because the office
is like the wolf of Wall Street for
Millennials is like how I put it it was
just like everybody everything happening
all at once and he's just like
thank you brother I appreciate that
brother and I was just like yeah like
yeah I mean like what was they expect
yeah like you can say to someone brush
it off like he was just like thank you
brother and I was like fuck dude it's
really inspiring man you know it's
really really inspiring his whole story
is really inspiring just the way he
works oh it's almost like a healthy the
way he works well so I was I went to the
office just for like a tour but it kind
of evolved into something a little more
than that mmm I wasn't even supposed to
meet him but so I I go there he wasn't
supposed to be there and I roll up and I
see so first of all his office is no
bigger it's actually one of the smaller
rooms in vaynermedia um which is I've
seen it when he does his interviews he's
always in his office and it's a pretty
tiny or yeah it's like not like anything
grandiose and dude I'm like so I'm just
like I sketch me the corner of my eye
and I'm like totally not trying to like
fangirl and he's on the fees on just a
conference phone like you just see him
like he's yelling into it like totally
alone no one else is with him and he
said he's just going attitude and that's
20 hours a day
like every day he's a machine like I
can't like after this I'm gonna take a
nap or let go to sleep cuz like you know
that's my energy threshold but people
that can work man and just keep working
and like not let I don't know like bad
thoughts or just like downward emotions
get in the way of your work flow is like
varying I'm overusing the word inspiring
but like watching people like that is
what keeps me going
yeah that's what I recognize about
myself for sure you know for sure it's
tough especially like being an artist
like your emotions are what fuel your
work mm-hmm
that includes the good emotions and it
also includes all the bad and sometimes
the bad um slows you down
I just how it is man right and that's
why it helps like have other people like
like a manager like mm-hm you know
whoever like a friend like I'll keep you
keep you keep you going to keep you
chugging but it's that's the interesting
thing about being an artist hustler
right like would you agree with that oh
yeah 100 percent and 100 percent I mean
we talk all the time of like I was
telling you like before we start the
podcast it's like right now my days are
like all 12 to 15 hours and that catches
up to you and especially when you know
there's some days where it's 12 hours of
like this is my day that I'm just you
know I have to do to make money
mm-hm and then the next day I wanted to
dedicate to recording I have I've got a
bunch of things on the table but I want
to do with music and it's like but now
I'm really tired and now I'm tired so
now that's making me sad you know and
it's like it's it's it's difficult to
find that that balance between work and
creativity and how those things
intermesh and also like affect one
another yeah I don't think I've quite
figured that out yet of how to you know
dedicate the right amount of time to
everything yeah I think that is my
struggle at the moment it's different
for everyone there's no there's no
there's no Yahoo Answers for that yeah
especially cuz I mean for me personally
I don't it might differ for you guys but
like I I haven't really gotten my
creative process down either it's still
in that like kind of like spontaneous
thing yeah so it's like if it's my one
off day and it's also doesn't happen to
coincide with my day of spontaneity
happen ya know for sure yeah yeah it's
it's different for everybody man yeah
it's totally I think once you like
notice like hey like oh this little
thing worked here like like me drinking
coffee at 10:00 a.m. as opposed to 9:00
a.m. I don't know for some reason I like
that better so I'm gonna do that now
it's like taking note of that
yeah kind of like writing like a yeah
rituals and habits are super important
habits are really important we've been
talking about that a lot lately like
I've been getting up in the morning and
I know you do it - we do a morning
journal I do a meditation in the morning
and just getting yourself into that like
routine a habitual routine yeah really
sets you in your mood for the day yeah
I'm trying to get on my sleep
like routine as well which is really
difficult like I wanted my seven hours
and you know for max productivity but
that's that's hard too so you you
meditate in the morning mid-morning yeah
I wake up and it depends usually what
I'll do is I'll do my morning pages I've
actually been slacking on it the past
couple days but I do my so I do like ten
minutes of journaling just off the cusp
okay journaling and then after that I'll
sit for ten minutes I have a headspace
app which I don't know if you use that
at all but it's familiar it's awesome
but I put a you know a certain
meditation on for the morning do my 10
minutes come upstairs have my coffee and
my day is good but it really helps like
kind of clear your mind and get you
ready for the day and it doesn't have to
be like a meditation you could do a
morning workout yeah and you get the
same type of effect out of it you know
it's whatever works for you that kind of
clears your head and kind of get you set
the other day I think it's so important
man like that quick hit of ritual I'm
just intrigued by the morning meditation
idea because I would think you would
fall back asleep yeah a lot of people
think that yeah but you don't know you
don't because well one thing one other
thing that's great about the headspace
app is like I think that would probably
happen more often if you were trying to
meditate one you didn't know how to
meditate and you're trying to just kind
of sit there in silence you know that
people a lot of people think that
meditation is just listening to
breathing and sitting in silence and I
think that conceptualization of it would
in think people would fall asleep but
with headspace wait the way he talks to
you and he's kind of talking to you
throughout it he'll kind of pop back in
and then pop out and he'll pop back in
and pop out so it keeps you kind of like
oh I got to go on to the next thing
oh I got to go on to the next thing oh
the meditation is over now you know so
that I think helps but it it definitely
like gets me it's like a breath of fresh
air in the morning nice yeah I think it
yeah
yeah you've been good at that too yeah
I'm saying on that I've been slacking of
the past like few days but for the most
part I and even if I don't do in the
morning I'll do it at night as long as I
get one in a day for you know but it's
generally 90% of the time in the morning
yeah whatever works for you you know
yeah
but how important what I was gonna ask
you if you have a morning yeah I do kind
of I have like daily rituals and I I was
I do the same thing with the journal
that's something that we like sort of
started doing together that's like to
keep ourselves writing and stuff so I'll
wake up and I keep somewhere around here
somewhere on my desk I have a notebook
that I'll just write in basically
stream-of-consciousness sometimes it'll
be the dreams from last night sometimes
it's just like something that's popped
into my head recently I haven't been
doing the meditations but I've been
listening to a different Alan Watts
lecture every morning I don't know if
you guys are familiar I played Alan
Watts for you do you know Alan Watts I
I'm not as familiar as I should be yeah
he's a he's a philosopher a modern
philosopher he's the guy who sort of not
sort of he did Western eyes like Zen
Buddhism and all of that so it's it's
not quite religious it's more like
spiritual and sort of like it like just
the way that he speaks gives you a nice
fresh perspective on things
he's got a really nice voice too and he
has a very nice it's a very robust and
like silky voice but so that's been my
thing recently and I'll just put on like
a seventh because there there's like
endless lectures with him on line so you
just go on YouTube and so I'll do my
writing I'll sit here with a coffee and
sometimes I'll close my eyes like as if
I'm meditating as if that's my
meditation like listening to his
lectures guiding me through that
yeah and that kind of gets me and it's
always a different topic right so that
like sets off my day and then I leave
here thinking about that yeah there's no
Alan Watts podcast because he passed
away in the 70s so it's really just like
old recordings but I can send you some
stuff he also has guided meditations
because he was like that guy
oh he does he has a handful of them and
they're they're quite good that's great
um listen no ya Joe Rogan loves a lout
once doesn't yeah I didn't realize I've
never I've never heard him talk what
yeah he like brought him off the other
day and it's hot I guess I was like good
shit nice yeah yeah but I love things
that sort of combat my perspective or
even just like bring you out of your own
universe for a little bit yeah on
universe of thoughts yeah you know that
like this yeah like I don't know like
you know all too often you get caught up
in your own head and your own thoughts
and then something will happen that'll
totally remove you from it even for like
a second and you realize that after you
know maybe you do maybe don't but like
if you do realize you're like oh that
was refreshing
yeah totally kind of like low state yeah
it's like have you heard of like what
flow station is like when you get into
the region something and you're so
skilled at it that your mind just kind
of starts going on yeah autopilot yeah
yeah so I feel that way when I'm
producing music because just all the
different components whether I'm playing
it or just producing like doing this
stuff on the MIDI keyboard and going
through and mastering it's it almost
funny because you almost feel like a
machine but during that time my brain is
working in a way that it won't I'm not
ever as engaged in something as when I'm
doing that it's like yeah you know I get
that when I'm doing like when I'm doing
martial arts um what I'm doing jujitsu
it's very much I know we've talked about
this on on here before but with jujitsu
the way that it works I don't know if
you're familiar are you familiar with
Brazilian jiu-jitsu or you actually like
the amount of Joe Rogan I listen to I
would be like I'm not it's it's a ground
I just tried and mate this may not be
related at all but I tried Muay Thai Oh
class yeah my god
if that shit was cheaper I would still
be doing it oh that's awesome one time
thing dude that's awesome loved it yeah
it's it's more Thai as I it's as much
eyes of striking martial arts and which
has a
the art of eight limbs so that means you
have fists you have elbows and knees and
you can hit with feet or shins what they
hit with yeah but jiu-jitsu is a ground
submission game so it's all about
getting arm bars getting chokes getting
wrist locks leg locks all that shoulder
locks that type of stuff
but when you're on the ground and when
you're doing it you're very much in that
flow State because you mean you're your
life quote/unquote your life is on the
line so when you're in something where
your life is on the line like that
you're kind of forced to be put into
this state of like I've got to be
totally in the zone yeah at all times I
can't be thinking about anything else
and it's a really cool state to be in
yeah it's really have you guys have you
guys ever listened it's a very very
popular TED talk
are you into TED talks you listen yeah
yeah I don't listen to them as nothing
enough um just because some are really
like good and some are elitist some are
like yes I'm just not in - yeah they're
bad I'm just I'm like or not yeah I do
have issues with TED Talks cuz like if
you look into it it's like it tries to
be like so like yeah and then like if
you look up like a vincennes it's like
$3,000 for a ticket is it yeah yeah
becomes like it's like it's really
elitist community but that doesn't mean
that the thinkers that go on there and
the speakers that present their ideas
are any less I mean so expensive yeah
yeah but this guy he created an app you
might have heard this one where it texts
you you you download it and throughout
the day it will text people and ask them
how they're feeling during that moment
they received the text and one of the
questions that it asks them is and I
think it texts them like 50 times a day
so it's like a lot of data that he's
collecting from thousands of people and
one of the questions is are you thinking
about anything else than this exact
moment and I think something like 90% of
the time people reply yes like I'm not
thinking I'm I'm totally out of this
moment the only time where there was a
significant shift is when people
received that text while they were
engaged in sexual activity and even then
there was still like eight percent of
people that reported that they were
still not completely consumed by the
moment
which is a really interesting and also
just from like a like anthropological
and like the point of view it's like I
find it so fascinating that humans are
most engaged in the moment one they're
having sex yeah I mean that's that's
totally eating sex and sleeping I figure
probably the three that like okay I'm
gonna eat my food
you know I'm shoveling this for you my
into my mouth I'm fucking focused on
that yeah or I'm passed out so I'm not
really thinking about that but my body
does think about that you know it's like
those three main yeah how they've always
been I thought you're gonna say like
when they said they were most present
when something like really bad had like
a car crash or something oh you know
that'd be interesting I don't think I
got into that I'm sure they would not
respond to that text I like that whole
like that whole thing like I was
listening to some I recently like when
you get into a car crash or something
like like that like life-threatening you
get like I forget which chemical it is
in your brain but it like pumps you with
like a crazy amount of it that pretty
much makes your attention to detail go
like a hundredfold and because of that
you perceive time like a lot slower and
I say like things were moving in slow
motion because yeah your body recognizes
a threat it pumps you with with a crazy
amount of this chemical and you start
you know perceiving time waste slower
than actually is an attempt to continue
being alive so and like avoid the
situation and well what I'm getting at
is I think people afterwards felt so in
the moment that it was overwhelming and
they're actually like drained of energy
yeah people that just experience like a
car crash mm-hmm you know afterwards
like assuming they're fine like you know
like no physical harm is done like
they just narrowly avoided it but you're
out like physically exhausted yeah
mentally exhausted because we were just
pumped with all this shit and they're
like recharge right and that's why like
people that have or like we robbed or
they were in like a very scary situation
where like someone was trying to hurt
them or whatever you they go to a sketch
artist and the sketch artist can
actually sketch out what they saw and
you think like like me thinking about
that I'm like if someone did something
me I wouldn't be able to know like what
they looked like yeah but what you would
a traumatic wonder it's adrenaline
that's kidding if I mean it's definitely
a combination yeah that's
fight-or-flight chemical whatever I
don't know that adrenaline is the only
chemical that is I mean I'm sure there's
a ton of shit that makes sense that you
would be like exhausted and it's
interesting that you would be exhausted
by being caught up in the moment but it
makes sense like your body goes tense
because tense but you're there are a lot
of sensations that we're feeling at all
times right like right now we are blood
is flowing like the air is touching our
skin like all this shit is happening but
we are dissensus desensitized to it
right so in those moments your body
whatever chemicals released suddenly
your entire body these these senses turn
on these things open up and now you're
feeling things that you don't normally
feel and it's like your body's just
totally overwhelmed burning a tremendous
amount of energy when people get into
car accidents their whole body the
reason a lot of people died in car
accidents is mean I guess it's like
heart attack right being in the moment
leads to a heart attack now my dear I
mean yeah that might be it because
you're meditating it's a good thing yeah
yeah no but they it's because they get
so tense and when you get tense you
don't move around and when you're in a
car and you don't move around your head
hit something it's gonna snap your neck
that's why people that yeah that's why
people that are drunk a lot of the times
aren't the ones that die in the car
because their body is super loose so
when they get into a car accident their
body doesn't respond in that tense
it must not release some sort of
chemical or something because they're
totally loose and and you know when the
car rolls over whatever happens they're
not hitting it in the same way that a
person ctmc is gonna grab that
yeah I forget exactly I think that drunk
driving is healthy you're gonna drive
let's do it your own yeah live longer
yeah if you drive if you drive drunk
you'll always come out spine right in
the ass like 20 years yeah well I I mean
I don't want to end it on a note of
drunk driving but yeah just don't don't
tense up right I don't stay loose
Anglo's Brown
all right cool thanks for coming by man
do you want to just say into the
microphone where people can find your
sound yeah yeah pretty much all across
the internet as my name Danny Casal more
specifically cool man coffee den you'll
find me
pretty much
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