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Ep. #2 - Jesse James Keitel Official Transcript

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out side lab what's going on guys thanks
for tuning in to episode 2 of
twenty-somethings podcast
my name is Keith Vartan Ian and I'm
super excited to introduce our second
guest of the show to you their name is
Jesse James Keitel Jesse has been an
enormous friend of myself and Grant for
like 7 years ever since the beginning of
college they are a drag artist as well
as an actor and we talked about a lot of
really important issues that are going
on in the country right now so I'm just
gonna let the podcast speak for itself
without further ado please welcome the
amazing Jesse James chi-town
audience members we're here today with
do you want me to Jesse James Keitel or
name yeah that that works that's good
okay do you want to tell the audience
what you do who you are your
relationship with us hi my name is Jesse
James Keitel I'm an actor and drag
I know Grant and Keith from school and
are the very best friends there ever was
would you care to tell them what you
look like right now so right now I'm
like head to toe blue I just took off my
vintage leather dress with a bunch of
spikes on it and yeah I've got some fun
white hair and bright yellow contacts
yeah yeah I look like I have a tar but
fashion yeah it's really weird to talk
to somebody with eyes like that yeah
yeah it's super unnerving it is it's
like hard to like look I can't like I
don't want to like look at you on
talking to you know they're the first
things I put put on and the first thing
I take off yeah and it's amazing how
much it changes everything like I could
step out with just the contacts like
okay cool I'm ready
so are those was the yellow contacts cuz
they look like snake eyes no they're not
snake eyes guys get all walkie like you
blink and all of a sudden you've got one
up and down and one to the right like
that's really wild these are just good I
don't think I could ever wear contacts
in general cousin too twitchy of a
person like you've never contacts in
never know yeah and they're my glasses
or anything well I started with scleras
so that big giant black ones yeah that
was the first contacts I ever had and
then I just have glasses I do very
recently oh that's right I saw them you
have like the clear rim glasses yeah
prescription contacts no so the first
time you were contacts was putting them
in for drag the first time yeah was a
costume yeah was the big black square uh
yeah wear lenses for drag that's cool
yeah so when we first met when we met on
was it orientation that we first saw
each other I think so and I think I
remember you because we had orientation
at Pace University and they all had a
sleepover in the dorms for one or two
nights I think there's just one one
night and we were on like the floor
together I remember you yep looking very
cute you look like a pirate
are you ever dressing like a pirate not
intentionally but like that's how I
remember yes I remembered you guys like
the kid who looked like he work on like
a ship deck or something like yeah no I
didn't and so now so tiny to them we've
known each other for going on eight
years which is crazy yeah and for me
it's been interesting to see and watch
you evolve and start I don't know I
guess like just getting into the drag
scene because when I first met you it
wasn't as prominent in your life is it
my knight incorrect in saying that no
not at all I mean I definitely dabbled
with make up pre-college and it seems
like that's cool yeah people's hair and
stuff so there's always like those like
little underlying like yeah yeah it was
always something I was definitely
interested in um but never really knew
what I could do with it what I wanted to
do with it or it's like it took off like
after college definitely I mean there
was a reason for that totally we I mean
post-grad sucks so I think the year or
two fresh out of school I hated acting I
hated everything about my life cuz he
was a sorta I think we should also note
that yeah I went I went to school for
acting and I didn't feel fulfilled
artistic we buy it anymore and I think
just because I was getting very
discouraged yeah and so me and some
friends turned towards drag and makeup
as a fun way to express ourselves
artistically and
it definitely got me out of a funk and I
learned so so so much about myself as a
person myself as an artist and I learned
a ton of skills in the process
can you go can you go into that process
a little bit about like so you're saying
like you learned a bunch about yourself
like what
how does doing drag help you learn about
yourself I'm like what about for one
confidence I mean it you get to paint a
new face on yourself you get to paint an
entirely new version of you that you how
you want the world to see you how you
want to present yourself to the world
and it could be as simple as I don't
know we're wearing lipstick
I mean allowing yourself to to step out
of the house in something that's not the
norm mm-hmm one takes a lot of guts and
two is incredibly incredibly liberating
sure do you find it like when you go to
like when you do drag shows is it all
the same type of audience is it like a
different type of crowd every time is it
and how does the crowd work and how does
that work into like when you do a show I
mean to be honest I don't two shows very
often III what I really do mostly is
what I prefer to do is more like events
like going to like an album release or
like like things of that nature where
it's not necessarily a drag event
audiences are wildly different I mean
you can go to a drag show in Brooklyn
and just a bunch of like queer people
ready to have a good time or you can go
and be heckled not non-stop and and
harassed at some who-knows-where in
Midtown so it depends on where you go
where heckled by who I mean people who
think it's funny I mean even just on my
way here I had people being like what is
that what is that I mean I personally I
have no problem taking the subway yeah
because I'm financially able to say okay
I don't go out every day it's worth me
taking that car right and so I if I'm
like in dragged in the slightest sign
have you ever felt like that like by
taking the subway or just walking out on
the streets I feel like a danger
typically I would go with friends and
safety in numbers
yeah so in situations with friends no
alone yeah you definitely want to look
over your shoulder it sucks I mean I
think I live in a very safe area I think
I used to live in a very safe area you
like well New York is well New York a
good City to be and of course but yeah
there's definitely times very
interesting it's like when you present
yourself a certain way you're just sort
of diving in to the norm right like
you're like walking outside into the
norm and you're standing outside of all
of that yeah immediately like
instantaneously well it's it's funny how
like me being neon blue right now it
automatically calls attention to itself
yeah like I'm my me existing in the
world today in this moment is calling
attention to myself but whether I want
it or not yeah but what about it I don't
understand what about it thank like if I
saw someone that was like blue outside
it wouldn't make me want to be like oh I
got you know heckle that person I got a
beat that person like why do people just
because of the colors different it's
just because it's different I know are
inherently afraid of the other yeah and
even even they might not think it's a
negative they could be really interested
but there's that that can still make
someone nervous too I mean do you ever
like do children ever interact Oh
totally like that's really interesting
yeah we actually did a performance art
festival upstate last summer and it was
a whole like family-friendly event so
the middle of the day doing full drag
and we were part part of the performance
was us getting ready mm-hmm
so people would come by over the course
of a couple hours and watch us
throughout the process getting ready
and kids would come up and have
questions and they would want us turned
into a little bit like children's party
face painting but yeah they would want
us like do their makeup and things like
I think Sheldon are very curious
were they younger or they like kind of
like 6 or 7 like with a three years old
I would say maybe like five okay yeah
like they were little right yeah well
the children it's just like colors like
it's like the others yeah whatever have
a predisposition as to what you know
what's going on they're just interested
they're just curious yeah that's really
interesting I feel like my kids would
probably be all not my kids but like the
students that I teach would be like
they'd be like you know not not scared
at first be like what's this and then as
soon as you start talking I mean more
often than not especially like my type
of drag because I don't necessarily it's
less about gender more about what's so
artistic yeah there's so much detail
that goes into it
thank you yeah but I think I'm never
necessarily being a woman or a man or
any of the above it's I I think
inherently more inviting yeah because I
think a lot of people are confused by
what a drag queen is you will not define
it for people I don't think that
necessarily is one I mean I there's
plenty of people who are like men like
cisgender men who their drag is being a
big beautiful gorgeous glamorous woman
and that's totally valid I think that's
more of a mainstream approach to what
drag is my like I'm a queer Femmes n
ting person who my drag I think is just
kind of an alienated extension of myself
okay now I I think it is rather it's
less about embodying another gender and
more about playing with what gender even
is interesting yeah like what you do
with drag is I think every time I don't
know that you've ever have you ever
repite to look like have you ever done
the same look twice I've never seen you
post the same thing twice I mean like
I've definitely used elements yeah
repeated elements but it's never the
same things that you're not you're not
like copying a look from before and I
think it's just so cool I mean that's
the exciting part is you change one
small thing and all of a sudden it's
entirely new look like I've worn this
this leather dress multiple times but
I've done two completely different
things with it I remember watching you
at the office when you used to get ready
and it would just be like you would have
a bunch of materials and you wouldn't
have known what to do with them yet yeah
I'm just gonna throw this here and all
of a sudden start doing and then the
next thing you know it's like this whole
concoction of different things that you
threw together at different times but
now it all works it's just I don't know
there's a really cool process to watch
well it's amazing how how fast you learn
and grow too because from me now versus
me a year ago I may not have done
hundreds of looks but the few I may have
done between then and now I've grown so
much in skill and in artistic eye and
where I want to go and and just how I go
about in my process yeah so I guess I
also want to ask how much do you think
your appearance like makes up your
identity like so how when you are just
not dressed up and as Jessie do you feel
different than when you're dressed up is
there a different personality that comes
along with the particular outfit that
you've decided to wear or the costume
that you've come up with and created I
mean I'm no different I mean like I it
definitely doesn't change me like it's
not a character I'm not putting on like
a voice or anything of that nature it's
it's me with makeup it's me with a bunch
of chemicals on my face right I guess
I'm just wondering like psychologically
like when you look in your tone about
yourself and you look completely
different that's got to be a jarring
experience right like when I shaved my
beard it's a little jarring I definitely
find I look at myself a lot more because
it's like I
the way it looks it I mean I think a
great example of what it does last year
I went out to a club for my birthday I
was not in drag I was on vacation in
Puerto Rico actually and there was like
not like a dance-off but something was
happening and I was too shy to join and
my boyfriend AJ said we just cuz you're
not wearing a mask of makeup you don't
have the confidence to do it interesting
I was so mad I was like how dare you
point that out did you like what I did
what did you get mad because like we
were feeling yes yeah and I it took me
by surprise because I was like yeah I'm
wearing ten pounds of makeup and it is a
mask even the contacts the contacts it
adds just a level of distance between me
and you that I think in a weird way
gives me more freedom to live freely
within my body mm-hmm so I I just have
more confidence because there's less
judgment cuz you're not necessarily
looking at me at Jesse you're looking at
what's on my face yeah do you think
that's translated to your acting at all
100% yeah because I it's just made me
more confident of a person because I
think I can acknowledge when when I'm
feeling insecure and why well I think
being at like a vulnerable state like
you're at if you know night-in night-out
like is gonna have an effect to where
like when your buyers you know when
you're in your own skin it's like
whatever like yeah I've been at that
insecure level so many times you know
that like that vulnerable level so many
times that like it's it's easy it's
repetitive I also imagine it's like it's
therapeutic right you know yeah in that
like you you have this freedom while
you're dressed up but like over time
doesn't that freedom just become the
normal state becomes I mean it doesn't
it doesn't because you know what it's
it's not my everyday it's still
something I put on it's still something
that I have to take a few hours of my
of my life that day and and paint and
and create and it so yeah it's it's fun
it's exciting every time and you step
out of the house in a new look that
you've never done before
and it's nothing but pure excitement if
you feel good it people know mm-hmm
that's yeah and I think I mean for me as
an actor I think it's given me a lot of
guts in a way like a project last summer
Alex Strangelove it's coming to Netflix
this summer tuned six they believe I
went to the audition in basically like
full golf drag and I'm all choices like
talking about a bold choice and I'm like
95% sure half the reason I got the job
is because of the makeup and I never
ever ever regardless of any skill level
I had or didn't have I never would have
had the guts to do that
pre my experience in drag right because
it I don't know there's something that
made me think it it doesn't matter just
yeah I mean I feel it slightly when I
like wear something that I'm a little
bit insecure about wearing outside right
like when you finally get the guts to
like put on that shirt like you don't
know how people are gonna think about it
right mm-hmm
well it's interesting like the dress I
keep referencing the one I'm wearing
tonight yeah me in the daytime wearing
it I look ridiculous like it looks
absurd I feel absurd I definitely have
worn it out before and just feel very
insecure in it mmm-hmm put on an hour's
worth of makeup and all of a sudden its
cohesive and I don't feel weird in it
yeah isn't that weird how like the
environment you're in can affect how you
feel so much totally yeah we were just
talking about that earlier too about how
like I guess if you're too comfortable
like if you're not feeling like pressure
or I don't know if you're not feeling
that like the if you're not if you're
not feeling comfortable all the time
like you know like if you're going into
an acting audition you're always doing
the same choice if you're always doing
the same thing over and over again
you're never kind of pushing the limits
you're never gonna get anywhere but if
you're doing that all the time and
you're pushing yourself to that that
point of like this is kind of like
really uncomfortable and you continue to
do that over and over again that like
you're saying the way that kind of
becomes the norm
but and you end up doing it in a normal
setting and it any worse but there's
like where it's like people are confuse
with comfort and complacency right those
are two very different things
so like you're saying like it's
comfortable but it's more like
complacency in that it's not so
comfortable because a lot of people feel
restricted all the time true you know
yeah so they're similar in that it's
like monotonous and it's the same thing
over and over again but one is there by
choice and the other one is you're there
because you don't want to put that
pressure on yourself you don't you're
not you don't have to the confidence the
motivation the balls the balls yeah the
balls talking about that early to
posting a status what was the status we
wanted to post we were just talking I
forget we went through a number of
statuses yeah what was the first one oh
the first one was that aren't arge and
I'll say else it our generation our
generation needs to grow some fucking
our generation that's that was the
status and we said we definitely weren't
gonna post at the Facebook because if we
posted that on Facebook we'd probably
get reamed apart for it yeah I mean it's
true yeah I mean like like you have
fucking balls like you know like thank
you no I think I think it really is true
to an extent we were watching the reason
why we're talking about this was because
we were listening to Jordan Peterson do
you know anything about him no I don't
think so
he's like this over the past year he's
can become like this prominent
philosopher is this clinical
psychologist and his big thing is he's
very against post
an ism and he's very against political
correctness because he says it creates
too much of a safe space in that people
become too fragile basically when you're
too politically correct nobody actually
speaks their opinions and therefore no
progress is made no I definitely think
there's there's a fine line because I
think political correctness is important
and I do think it's powerful however I
think it can cross cross over into being
toxic when it's so heavy-handed what
line what line is that for you like what
would represent that crossing outlined I
think as details matter I mean it's even
like before when I was saying people who
don't understand what a drag queen is
it's like a drag queen who is some
something that's being put on it's like
a performance it's just just for the
show it's it's a game right versus like
a trans woman mm-hm it's about identity
and the difference between identity and
performance and I personally know many
people in my life who did not know the
difference between a drag queen and a
trans woman and I think that's where
political correctness is tremendously
important because it's aid in some cases
life or death mm-hmm
you know I mean how can you elaborate I
mean the people getting killed for it's
not not being understood trans women
getting killed for people being scared
because they don't know what it is drag
queens being assaulted or killed
murdered because they're people are
scared and they don't understand and I
think that's where political correctness
and terminology and words and language
that's where I think it's it's
wonderfully important now when you are
the PC police and you over police the
way people talk and then they don't they
don't want to talk they don't want to
learn they're closed off because they're
scared of being wrong or looking like an
idiot and that's
that's and that is I don't think that's
necessarily in your words meeting balls
I think that's knowing when to shut the
fuck up and fight fight yeah fight pick
and choose your battles and yeah yeah
yes yes that's my two cents I mean uh on
this topic and it's actually heavily
related to this this guy Jordan Peterson
he's been speaking out in Canada they
recently passed the law I think it's
called like BC 16 or something where
it's now legally required that you have
to refer to trans people through their
proper pronouns legally so you can get
in legal trouble if you don't and he was
speaking out saying that's crossing a
line because you're impeding on free
speech well and he sounds like an idiot
in my opinion from the two seconds I've
heard of him I think that's great but I
understand where the law is coming from
but that's like me caught referencing
you grant a cisgender male being like
look at her look at her look at her
she's whatever and if it's something
that truly upset you and not just upset
you completely denies your existence as
a person completely negates your
identity and basically in dangers you in
many circumstances I that's bad I mean
if we're on the subject of trans people
why is the suicide suicide rate for
trans people so high it's not because
being trans makes you want to die it's
from not being accepted yeah and if
that's if making a law saying
misgendering a trans person is illegal
if that law saves thousands of lives if
it saves one life that law is important
I just to play devil's advocate because
I agree I mean I I I mean I will
obviously if a trans person wants me to
call them I something I'm going to call
them by it right like whatever you want
me to call you that's totally fine but I
feel like if you start making laws
telling people to do things you're gonna
you're gonna get
one backlash for sure people just aren't
gonna want to do what you want them to
do you can't force people to say things
and if you put a legal thing on it then
I mean how could somebody you're gonna
have all these cases of someone being
like well he called me this and she
called me this and you're getting into
this really weird gray area of what's I
think it's also offering protections for
trans people I mean this this says I I
am a person and I have the legal right
to maintain my identity in the public
yeah and for you to negate that is
problematic and I think that's giving
them closer and closer to broader legal
protections it's a recognition right
yeah if anything it's symbolic right by
the government like it's highly symbolic
of like we care about you and just
thinking like in the workplace I mean in
casual conversation like if you
misgendered someone I'm sure them
bringing you to court would be
ridiculous but if it's like in a
workplace situation and a boss referring
to their employee by with improper
pronouns consistently not on accident
but as an act of aggression I totally
see why that law would be more than I
mean well it's like then it gets into
like hate speech right Rattray sweet
like free speech only goes so far like
there are things that are not like
protected under free speech right hate
speech is not protected under freeze
right but now it's not calling someone
something can be constituted as hate
speech but here's but here's the
difference you have the freedom of
speech you could say whatever the fuck
you want mm-hmm however you saying
whatever the fuck you want does have
consequences and I'm going back to
suicide the lovely topic if you
misgendering someone led to something
bad happening to them either
from them committing self-harm or
someone else committing some kind of act
of aggression I don't know I I find it a
good thing to be a yeah yeah yeah I mean
I I totally agree that people should
definitely you know they should a
hundred percent call whatever you want
like I said whatever problem that I see
with I I think the goal like and what
their what a law like that is aiming to
do is phenomenal I it worries me because
I think people don't like being told
what to do on like a just being told
what to do I mean there's also I
guarantee you like I know we're not
talking about you and me we've you most
certainly interacted with way more
transgender people than you would ever
ever even know and I don't know I it's
it's drawing attention to something that
doesn't need to be drawn attention to
necessarily like transgender bathroom
debate mm-hmm we've all shared a
bathroom with someone who's trans right
you wouldn't you wouldn't know it's just
a fear of the other right that is like
how does that impact you at all right it
doesn't and the same thing with with
making it illegal to refer to someone
with the incorrect pronouns I mean you
know is saying it like that that does
sound absurd however if you're saying it
as a in terms of protections yeah
for an individual I mean better way for
them to frame it that well perhaps you
yes but at the same time there's only
that protection for that group of people
so now we you have to you got to protect
all the groups of people right so now
it's like like I can't call you a woman
I mean you can but grant sitting here as
this is man is that's not going to
affect grants safety and like
psychological development and but it has
to be equal for everyone sure but I
think that's that's so I hate that I
hate that argument so much
because that's like Oh what about me I
Oh what black lives matter what about my
life as the white horse lives like it's
the same it's the same argument there it
doesn't that's not even in the same
ballpark in my opinion it's like just be
a decent human being and refer to people
the way they want to be referred to and
and I don't think I don't think there's
a debate it it's if someone's going to
miss gender someone it could happen
accidentally it happens it is what it is
but I mean accidentally more than not
and if it happens continually after
repeating after repeatedly correcting
someone it's an activist you can't you
can't deny that that is a form of an act
of aggression or just ignorance and just
yeah you just hope that like it wouldn't
need to get to a legal situation you
would hope that the people around with
are good enough people to be able to see
the problem and exonerate the problem
before it gets any worse you know if
there's like someone in a workplace that
is doing this to an employee you would
hope that everyone else in the workplace
would be like okay we're gone you would
hope you would hope but like now I'm
thinking it's like do we think that this
country would have desegregated if the
laws didn't change right exactly that's
a huge point so laws laws permit
progress to take place
like sometimes laws are that pushing
force that allow it to take for like to
take place because when a law is
instilled a law becomes a part of the
identity of a country and then the
population of that country while their
personal views might not change usually
people will go along with them
like the identity of whatever country
they're a part of but see I don't
believe and now correct me if I'm wrong
because it might be constituted as hate
speech but I don't believe there is a
law saying that a white person can't
call a black person the n-word is there
I don't know
I depend on the context I think all
right there's not a it is a racial slur
for sure I don't know I'm just that
that's just know I mean but I wouldn't
like recommend anybody no no there's not
there's not a law against no I think
that's what I'm saying it's like it's
where do these laws come into play like
you're toying with laws here with
language and that's a scary thing no but
I think it's in the same thing it's like
it might not be illegal to say it but
don't say it cuz you're a dick right
right but that's what I'm saying is like
I don't know that it should be a law I
think people should just be good people
right you know like you can't have that
much faith in people like when you
condition a child to act a certain way
you punish them right but then like you
put not like punish them but like it's
like oh you hit your brother and go in
timeout right like it's like it's such a
like elementary form of law right but
what like in like Jordan Peterson was
saying he was you know as soon as you
start to restrict restrict people speech
now granted this is speech that you all
want everyone wants to restrict of
course mm-hmm but as soon as you start
to do that we start to you know over
time maybe not immediately but over time
you start to not think anymore like like
Jordan Peterson was saying I think
there's some validity to that you know
yeah you got to make sure that this
doesn't get too out of control almost
that were that were that were like you
said like the PC police that you're
doing every single little thing but I
think we're in the era of reining that
in I mean post Trump I think a lot of
people did a lot of reflecting I mean
that's for sure I I definitely like I
said earlier I think there's value and
importance in political correctness in
political correctness excuse me but when
it's taken too far I think it is very
effective at silencing a lot of people I
mean I know like my family my mother
often is scared to talk about certain
subjects with me even just out of fear
of saying the wrong thing and feeling in
restrict conversation almost of course
and I it's totally valid it's a valid
response to to being corrected and
whatever that was yeah and also like
political correctness can get to a point
like just the the fact that there's a
term PC police you know that term was
developed because it's gotten to a form
the point where you can joke around
about it right so when something turns
into a joke it's no longer taken
seriously you know I'm saying can you
say that one more time like now we have
we have a term that we can call these
people PC police right so like that's
political correctness going too far to
the point that we're now we have a label
right like it's already kind of meant
like making fun of in a way yeah but
having a joke about it having a joke
about the extremes of it it doesn't
negate the entire thing no I know I know
I'm saying like once you cross that line
totally yeah yeah weird conversation to
have because like I said you just hope
people would be good enough people yeah
it's like you know that's what it all
comes down to just be a good person I
don't know I've been thinking about that
a lot recently and it's like I don't
know if people are inherently good if
you look at this story it would seem as
though they're not but you want to
believe it and your were brought up I
think especially in America like we're
taught that people are good we're taught
that Americans are good we're talking
that we're the best
and we're righteous and we're
outstanding and upstanding yeah well you
get older and you start to see the flaws
and those statements
I don't know I don't know if people are
good I think people might need might me
laws to change like I I mean clearly
when you encounter some people just if
you encounter some trolls on Facebook
it's like how are these people ever
going to change without that pressure
well like I don't think anyone who's
ever I don't know called me a faggot
walking down the street or I just said
whatever they've said to me like in drag
or or out while I'm in public I don't
think any one of them isn't inherently a
bad person I think to them I might be
the bad person
you know yeah lady like sincere way to
look at that from your opponent you know
from your point of view yeah I yeah I I
don't think people can be classified as
necessarily good and bad just because of
their response to something that they're
not familiar with mm-hmm you know it's
like what you were saying before about a
child and like learning it's like I hit
my brother and now I go to timeout you
learn as society learns you know yeah
there's a lot of things that we're
talking about in today's day and age
that our parents didn't talk about no
you know it wasn't part of the society's
vernacular in the moment yeah and go
ahead just just where we're building
language to like we're building language
as we go in a way language evolves
people evolve with it yeah and you're
either on the forefront of it and you're
within that sphere or you're not and
you've got a little bit of a delay and
that's fine yeah but history is on the
side of progress history is on the side
of progress and you can't shame someone
just because they're two months behind
you in the verbage talking about
interesting that you you cite like
language is such a driving force of
progress as well I'm I'm taking a
linguistics class right now and I'm
writing my research paper about the link
between emotional intelligence and
emotional vocabulary that's gonna be my
final paper and there's studies that
show that when you have a word to label
and a certain emotion you respond like
the part of your brain that sets off the
physiological reaction to that emotion
if you can label it it's not as active
when you experience that emotion so when
you have a word for something when you
can label something the way your brain
responds to it it doesn't go into that
fight-or-flight mode as quickly when you
can label it it's no longer the unknown
so it makes sense that language is such
a like crucial part of that human
progress right as we learn more as we
label more more and more becomes known
to us and that way we just overall we
develop a better understanding of the
world a better understanding of the
abstract the things that scare us the
things that were once other but we still
use language and then still get scared
like in the very early stages I think I
mean we definitely evolved like you said
like there's like that two-month delay
or whatever but like you know like I
remember we talked about this before
when we were in high school like I used
to say you know faggot but I wouldn't
use it as like a derogatory term towards
anyone that was gay was just something
that was said in high school you know
like all like that's so gay or whatever
you know but like totally as you you
know once I came to New York that was
like okay that's done like we you can't
say that anymore I don't
yeah but you changed with your as your
understanding of the word evolved you
evolved with it right
but what like well I would actually say
that he evolved first and then his
understanding of the word like he
experienced a different environment and
then he was like that word is not okay
perhaps but there are some people that
use that word and then you have that
fight-or-flight and still are like you
know like nervous around that person
like someone walking down the street and
being like golf you know youth or
whatever they're experiencing that
fight-or-flight like yeah they're
experiencing that fear so that's
interesting like the emotional why don't
you call I don't know if it worked like
I feel like over time that person
continuously having that word in their
brain with that label the problem if
we're gonna use faggot as the example
it's a derogatory term
well like it has connotations linked to
it yeah if you were like like you were
saying before if you knew the difference
between somebody who's trans and
somebody who's a drag queen
those don't carry that connotation true
so if you could just label it as what it
is not as not you thinking nice right
what I'm saying is that the language
evolves use you don't have it in your
head as a as faggot anymore it's now
actually what it is
oh that is a gay man oh that is a
bisexual man that is a that is a drag
queen that you know like you have an
actual label for it
yeah not the derogatory anymore right it
evolves yeah yeah words words shape our
experiences they really do yeah and
hence why political correctness can be
important yeah it's important to say the
right thing like five hundred percent
yeah I don't know it's it's good yeah
it's hard though it's hard in right now
to be nice to everybody you know and
it's weird because I feel like Democrats
like we used to be the nice ones and I
feel like we're being forced not to be
nice anymore thank you guys we yeah
getting getting the dirt and playing off
a little bit well like we I feel like we
used to be like the Democrats used to be
the ones that were like anti violence
and like anti and now I feel like like
we would never speak a certain way or
sink to a certain level and I feel like
that party has has done so yeah I think
we've been dragged into the inside I
mean realistically I think the majority
of our generation is Democrat by
necessity in independent by like in
their heart yeah I mean yes the one
thing I hate about it same thing with
like organized religion like when you
subscribe to an a guerrilla gee-ya an
ideology a group it's so it's such a
strict binary in my head it is at least
like yeah for me to say I'm a Democrat
that means I believe in X Y & Z when
that's not necessarily the case right
you know but it's important to be like
Thanks so if it features non-binary
let's have that stretch not just gender
and whatever but into our political
system as well hundred percent yeah
because even right there bang yeah but
seriously like productivity is so
hindered like through I did like
identifying with your ideology once you
identify with your ideology that leaves
very little room for progress but you'll
see people that I mean they stick to I
mean you'll see it on the right you'll
see on the Left you'll see it in
Christianity you'll see
it's all over the place it's like once
you're in that zone
you're not leaving that so the thing is
like I am at like there are obviously
some people not brainwash but the let's
views brainwashed here but they are
brainwashed and like whatever
so they'll are going to believe anything
that their party release releases but
there are other people and I imagine
this is a majority of people that
question a lot of things that their
party does or how they're acting or some
of their beliefs but they don't speak
out for the fear of being like cast yeah
castrated by the the the rest of their
party yeah it's also it's like you know
sport teams it's like oh yeah the
quarterback did some not good things but
they're my team I want them to win right
so I'm gonna give them a pass yeah it's
it's so stupid it's stupid but it's
amazing because like it's it's like we
needed it to feel ourselves we need to
identify with this thing it's a really
mentality what is that it's like a pack
mentality almost a tribal it's very
tribal yeah yeah but you know there's a
reason why tribes don't exist anymore
you know like tribes they still kind of
do unfortunately they do but they exist
on a much like grander scale right like
we have States and we have countries and
yeah but when you're tribal
you're you're looking for an enemy like
your tribe exists as one entity and
everything else is your enemy right
necessarily I mean that's just your
community that's where you are that's
that's who you are if that's where you
find identity is within with like-minded
people I don't I don't know if that's
necessarily casting everyone else's the
enemy but yeah totally when it's I mean
right now we're living in a fractured
two-party system where it's this or that
and anything in between doesn't actually
get to vote in the bigger elections but
yeah they can't mean the ones that
matter yeah that's true
like what do you what do you guys think
is gonna happen like like can we tell
the remember do you guys have moments
throughout your day
just like like kanye west's just tweeted
at Donald Trump saying we both have
dragon energy I was this is what it's
come to could you imagine being like the
PERT like Vladimir Putin like watching
this unfold like walls all in his plans
think about I mean this is the crumbling
of an empire what we're watching is
growing up in the United States like we
were just like hit so hard to have such
immense respect for our political system
and you know people are saying like the
apocalypse is coming like we're heading
towards dystopia how do we know we're
not there right now I mean this is know
definitely the most dystopian time that
we've ever lived in like people are like
what's gonna happen in 2020 what about
right now like this Kanye West and dr.
Donald Trump's like I love you Kanye
best wow really cool yeah like we did a
chance to today and chance actually they
could already have been like you know I
don't support Trombley he sent out this
whole thing but Trump then went back
it's like thank you so much to chance
and like you just thank someone else as
well it's like he's just like really
playing that card right now huh yeah
it's it's amazing how like for a while
if every day is overwhelming I mean I
I'm someone I watched the news a lot I
watch me too although I watch all like
the nighttime talk show comedy news
shows like I love it I love them all and
it's so fucking overwhelming it's
exhausting but it's amazing how I mean
me and you spoke about this not too long
ago how in the weird way I feel almost
indifferent because it's gotten to the
point where I'm so inundated with just
crazy just crazy stuff every day and if
it's not world events it's something
stupid certain political figures may
have said yeah and and it's it's so
overwhelming at this point that it's
well the blonde I turned a blind eye to
it that's how things become normal it's
like if something is
there's somebody outside who's doing
construction and it's happening all day
eventually that noise will won't become
noise it'll just become like the normal
level of sound when you're hearing that
buzzing that commotion outside will just
be that default level of white noise and
that's what's happened here the news has
become the white noise level yeah and
that is insane I don't think that as a
species you have to remember as a sweet
like just invented the printing press
that just happened yeah like what was
that like 200 years ago 300 years ago
we're way too technologically but we've
been around for three hundred thousand
years and now think about the amount of
information that we're in taking every
day and it's not just neutral
information it's information that's
having an emotional impact on our brains
it's sending and shooting off neurons
and and physiological responses and I
just I can't imagine what it's actually
doing to us on an evolutionary level you
know well there was how much we're like
how much information we're taking in
every day compared to what we were
before the before the computers around
and it's just it's insane well I think
just between like now in 1920 the
statistic is like in one day we're
taking more than like a person didn't
you know the 1930s took in their whole
life yeah on average that is crazy
that's insane but it's not it's insane
but when you hear it and then you think
about the amount of information we take
and you're like that makes sense though
because like clumsier living people were
barely reading books right now like
right yeah I when I was in India I had
my phone and I was traveling on a train
I downloaded a book right on my phone a
300 page book and I started reading it
on a sleeper train in India yeah I had
content I had information ready to go
anywhere you can get the news you can
get what's going on in like Korea while
you're in like Britain well that's the
other mad news is around the world yeah
a couple months ago when there was that
shooting in New York on the Westside
do you remember that the
guy like ran the truck through the biker
trail and like had a bunch of 500 before
I knew about it Liam I think Liam texted
me about it
before I knew about it it doesn't sound
like a big deal because it's normal for
us now but think about that yeah so he
texted me like 10 minutes after it
happened he's in England and you're in
New York and you're here that's crazy
that's also a difference just in like
our our age too though like I don't have
cable yeah like for me to get news is
purely from my phone yeah no it's gonna
be from now on
that's the thing evolution I mean a
hundred percent that's that's like where
we're going evolutionarily we're not
gonna be watching cable news I mean I
don't you guys I deleted a news app off
my phone I couldn't stand getting those
notifications I did that almost two
years ago I still have it but I never
click on on those I just yeah I'll be
out where I'll be out where I could be
like oh that happened and I'll go on
with my day that was like when the MIT
when we were launching missiles at area
we were launching missiles at Syria and
it was like you know any other time
period in like in our you know wives
this would have been like a significant
event and it's like the back burner of
the news page of the news stories well
it's like today the North Korea and
South Korea announced that they're
signing a treaty to end a 75 year old
war that's insane but I go on CNN the
top thing is like Russian lawyer
involved in like the Trump Tower meeting
was never around and I'm like agenda
what like how why is this most important
it's all clickbait it's all it is now
like you have to sift through that's the
other thing now we're getting hit with
all this content but we also have to be
very aware that it's not all valid right
like we have to be filtering things and
it's also yeah it's been a turd to us
like like the Facebook algorithm is
Facebook caught a lot of crap because
their algorithms were working in so that
if you were looking and standing with
YouTube if you're looking at like
articles you're never gonna get the
right side of things if you're looking
at you know conservatives so if you're
looking at like The Daily Beast or
whatever you know Daily Mail whatever
you're never gonna get the left so you
just like continually polarizing and
it's all based on your devices which are
all linked to yeah and you can test that
too because when I'm on my laptop my
desktop or my phone I see basically the
same stuff but when I go on my work
computer it's all different well what's
what's the link there I mean I don't
know Facebook no I'm saying like if I'm
scrolling on CNN or on Yahoo or
something no I know but like I what I've
noticed cuz I work in an office from
yeah and I'll notice if I'm on logged
into Facebook for example on a work
computer and I look up target lamps
mm-hmm I'll get ads on my phone for
target lamps yeah and what's the
connector yeah it's it's Facebook it's
all of them it's Facebook it's your your
phone it listens to you it sounds like a
conspiracy but I have a friend who
tested it he spoke about a certain
product around his phone for a week and
then add start showing up on his phone
for really yeah that's crazy
yeah because really scary though your
phones are listening to you if you have
a go one of those amazon dots or or
certain TVs to that also they were smart
and they were claimed that they watch
you or like the people are watching
through your like your laptops computers
and you know I work with students and
I've started noticing this thing they
bring their laptops in and all of them
have their thing covered yeah well were
you did you work with us when I did that
yes you covered all those I covered all
all the webcams because I was sitting at
work typing away yeah and the webcam
light turned on and I know that that
that might not necessarily mean anything
but it happened it's like what it would
be activating well I thought I saw it I
thought I saw it and I was like oh
that's weird and then I saw it happen
again I was like no way and I waited a
little while later and I it turned on
the webcam camera
nothing would open that I I didn't have
any app that would have that Oh creepy I
was like all right no more and I put it
posted over it for a while I every
computer but it makes sense it's like
you and I were having a conversation a
couple weeks ago about how easy it would
be to hack somebody if you really want
it to yeah cuz you know how you have
like security questions for all of your
ya know so much information about it
right it's like we just go on Facebook
like oh who was your first lady oh well
sister right they're like okay now I can
answer that question yeah like everybody
has all their family members listed it
would take a hacker like like two
minutes you know it's got to be
relatively easy to go onto somebody's
webcam if you really wanted to right
I mean I had that hacker that knows how
to get into your system sure yeah he's
got to figure out a way to get into your
system and then they get you know can
navigate to your camera turn it on it's
this card there's just so much that I
think that we know so little about that
goes on well the fact like just the door
better off not knowing I think so too I
mean you know like the dark web makes up
like 75% of the entire Internet think
about all the internet you've ever been
on that's like that's insane of it yeah
and we're not allowed to go on it what a
crazy thing the dark web well I wonder
what that looks like I've been on it
have you no you have to dance so I would
recommend downloading VPN but you have
to download a certain browser I think
it's called like onion yeah yeah and
then you have then you log on through
this browser which is encrypted I'm
pretty sure and then you have to you can
access all the stuff and it's crazy you
can you can access like you can hire a
assassin oh my god you can buy drugs
obviously there's the Silk Road which
was that big
- it's not legal to browsers you're not
in you can't do anything on this a quest
you're not really not people get
arrested all the time for like busted
with like on child pornography sites and
stuff like oh my god yeah that's all in
the dark web yeah
you can buy firearms and you can't
access those dark web
science from a normal browser no it's
impossible no that's interesting is so
interesting how that how that works yeah
take a totally separate section but it's
like what are what aren't we seeing like
what's the facade
you know the facade yeah well the facade
is the internet that we're allowed to
make masks right yeah I mean anyway but
it's weird it's like it's like some like
like what does thanks you know if we're
talking about like before we were
talking about whether people are
inherently good or bad well 75% of right
that sounds pretty bad yeah it's like it
seems like there's a special again I'm
going to say especially in our country
and I've always been keenly aware that
this there's such a point of like we're
good we're great we're the good ones be
the best where the heroes like yeah I
saw this time today and it was like it
was like you know they'll never take
away my guns because if if they ever
took you know if my kid ever needed to
go to Italy exist this whole thing about
like with Britain right now about this
kid that did wasn't allowed to go to
Italy and now he's dying in Britain he
had get his life support poles and
everything and it was because of the
universal health care in Britain that's
a whole separate story but this guy
tweeted and was like you know if they
ever tried to take my kid off a plane
you know I would take my gun out and I'd
hijacked that plane and drive to Italy
it's like damn like we think we're the
good ones and that's what you're saying
you just talked about hijacking a plane
it's like what the wait I don't follow
who is this guy it's just a random guy
but he's an American that like believes
in like his second oh he's American yeah
he's American wait but how did the where
did Brit come into it what do you mean
didn't you say Britain yeah no no no
so this okay so that was a whole
separate that's why I said this is
almost every store oh okay Britain had a
there was a child in Britain that wasn't
allowed access to health care like his
the health care because yeah you have to
wait a long long time and so the parents
want to bring him over to Italy to get
health care and the British government
said no and this is the whole thing
being like thrown around by a right wing
you know yeah
Dewar's and whatever so I don't even
know the validity of this whole thing
but an American guy saw that and then
was like you you never this is why we
need our Second Amendment is because I'm
gonna you know if they ever tried to do
that to me I'd bring a gun on the plane
and hijack the plane so I could get my
kid to Italy just like the innocent
solution that comes there well it's like
we think that we're the good ones what
you know what's going on what's going on
there I can tell you right now if you've
ever been to any other country in the
world America is not perceived as the
good country by anybody else we're not
not in Europe not in Asia nobody looks
at it it's so funny we are seen as a
place of prosperity yes we are seen as a
place where people want to go to make
money but as far as our ethics people
don't look at us at least in our global
I think we're seen as a plate I mean I
guess it's complicated because to some
countries we're such like a beacon of
light right like we're such like they
were like the end we're like the top
well yeah but at the same time there's a
lot of resentment we've talked about
this like when you were in Iceland I was
really me my sister took a trip to
Iceland and we got into a fight with
this like 50-something year-old woman at
a bar about the United States and she I
mean she was clearly under the influence
of something yeah and but she wouldn't
even hear us out how we were on her side
and we agreed
she's like you Americans you think
you're the best like look at us we
actually are higher up than you like
just saying stupid stuff but yeah she
wouldn't even listen to us try and be
like no no we agree yes our our
education system yes are our taxes yes
because her whole thing was we pay all
these taxes and we see the benefits like
we know where our money is going we
might not have the military the United
States has
your your taxes go to go towards
murdering people yeah that's what she
was saying and we're like yes we agree
that's not good but she was she saw us
as Americans and therefore as I had a
similar experience like when I was
traveling in India and Nepal because I
was with a group of really great people
but mostly from Australia and one guy
from England and it was like a joke
right like there were a lot there are
just so many light-hearted jokes about
America along the way not many jokes
about Australia not many jokes about
England but like men and I was the only
American but the jokes were became
relentless right and it got to a point
and I think I told you this where I got
to a point where I was like I started
feeling a little patriotic for the first
time in my life because I was like this
is a little bit ridiculous like when
you're constantly shitting all over
America and saying everybody from
America is domme and making these you
know general stereotypes that everybody
always says about America even people
that have never been to America they say
these things and yet they're all on
iPhones you know listening to American
exactly we're wearing American clothes
right and it's so it's this weird
relationship that I think the rest of
the world has with America where it's
like well we give them things well yeah
we a lot with a lot of innovation and
production comes out of America but
we're also like the world's oppressor
right like we are we are because America
exists nobody else will have our
position right so we're automatically
put in the position of being the
oppressor we're number one we're the
most powerful country which builds up
resentment whenever there's an oppressor
like the the people there's the subjects
like I hate to use like such like
medieval terms but like they're going to
build up resentment right towards the
nation that has the power towards the
individual that has the power of the
king we have our hand in so many
different countries
over the place where everywhere yeah I
mean I think I mean we're like in a lot
of country I think it's like upwards of
there's gotta be more than 30 countries
that we're in right now with more than
30 countries yeah I would say I mean we
have we have a global presence that is
just unheard of we're the only
superpower that has ever existed bases
in Turkey we got babe we got bases all
over the place yeah it's nuts
like even like the countries that are
run during our runners up like England
France like they're not even close even
Russia and China like they're not even
look at the military spending just in
just that in general yeah like I think
it's like more than the next six
countries combined we spend on our
military something like that I'm
convinced that we're living in a video
game simulation I'm I'm convinced that
were just a video game simulation and
that all of this is just like this is
the game right there was like well we
lower ourselves up or not and that's the
game but who's playing I don't know some
guy lays it only one person controlling
all of us and then aren't we just guy
girls play video games too but why isn't
it we were just girls PC police come on
not only guys can play the game of life
right we were talking before I don't
know what this just jumped into my head
but before you got here I was listening
to this lecture from this biologist
earlier today who was talking about
different species that are asexual and
so they reproduced by either like
budding or cloning and stuff like that
and he was saying that there's
evolutionary evidence that shows that
these creatures become asexual from
profound loneliness which means that
over time this species like the rate at
which they found another one of their
species became so slim that evolution
made them asexual I am gonna predict
right now that in like
five thousand years that's happening to
we're gonna get so we're just gonna be
like on our phone like whatever gadgets
we have just are like bunny out of my
shoulder yeah just like plop out on the
dad yeah isn't that wild oh that's cool
it's just weird to think about how like
there's there is some sort of underlying
force or energy that is pushing us in
some direction like it's guiding us like
we were saying before like at that at
that time like something in ourselves
knew that that species was not mating at
the rate that it should be mating at and
so it was just like fuck it we'll just
start reproducing with one of us has a
cold okay as a collective being you know
like it's like well then it's just like
then it realized like there is like I
hate to use the word intelligence but
there's some like sort of intelligence
going on there where it was like let's
try all this a sexual thing oh it's
working let's keep doing that yeah but
actually it's like it's it's crazy like
what what is it natural selection that's
what it's going right
I was I was listening to a actually a
part of Joe Rogan's podcast yesterday
where he was I have forget who it was
that he had on but he was talking about
coyotes and how they there's I think
it's a certain species of coyote that
they we can't get rid of them right now
they're like rampant across the United
States and it's because when they do
roll call so like when they howl out at
each other if one of them is missing it
signals to the females in the pack to
mate at a faster rate and to with more
like Cubs or whatever it is so when we
kill them they actually birth more
coyotes that's like a real thing that's
crazy yeah like it's not asexual but
yeah no that's not asexual that's
natural selection yeah it's a not
meaning but it's evolutionary for as if
we did that
how about how about yeah I'm having lots
of babies lots and lots of baby there's
so many G crybabies no thanks one is
enough one G cousin
no not for a little while
or ever
the whole process of having kids weirds
me out
yeah said you've always said that the
sex yeah it's me how the smells the
tastes it's just you know the textures
route going to wet
yeah yeah I don't know yeah having kids
I would like no no kid I'm like nah I
don't have like that bag I don't see a
baby I'm like oh so cute like I'm like
that's kind of Li yeah
we're different in that way I won't like
ten do you want a colony I want to call
really yeah I want to drive like an
extended fan packed to the brim with
children a school bus
yes are they gonna be no no they're
going to be neon blue but spikey leather
outfits nice um will they bought out for
your shoulder yeah no I love kids can't
wait hmm
what age do you guys want you both want
to have kids so what
oh no idea whenever I'm financially
stable enough to I yeah I'm not no
nowhere anytime soon I'm probably
thinking like early to mid thirties so
it's probably gonna be around so six
years that's not six years well you're
gonna be 25 yeah so I said mid-thirties
gee Cross said early to mid-thirties
yeah I got some time so eight years
seven years yes maybe no no yeah I don't
know I'm in no rush
yeah me neither I don't know but I do
want to be young for my kids so I don't
want to be like grandpa trial the
baseball to Johnny you know no Johnny
I'm not gonna he's kid Johnny what's
wrong with Johnny Johnny's a great name
yeah so is Keith no he's really ugly
name keep - yeah lots of people don't
like that name
I hate that name you wanna know why
because there was a joke on Family Guy
like years ago yeah what's that was like
it was just like they were like trying
to open up a safe and like the code to
open up a safe it was like what is the
ugliest name and like ever since then
your name just hasn't been take
yeah that's all right it just like ends
really weird like Keith it's a lot it's
a lot of like first look sound is
bearish it's hard to say
and the Keith sound is just really gross
whenever I go to the bagel store up up
up at the corner and they're like kiff
that's what they write it as ki f kiff
makes me feel like I have a lisp they
always write - like like Chris one time
they wrote it as grass yeah grass and
they're like and they always confirm
with me - like I'm like grin they're
like okay grass Jesse yep I am okay we
can wrap this up
I think this was productive I thought
this was a good conversation yeah I had
fun thank you for coming thank you for
inviting me do you want to tell everyone
where we can find you like on Instagram
or like on sure you I have two
instagrams you could find my drag
peroxide underscore feminine and then
Jesse James Keitel is my actor Instagram
make sure you check them out people all
right cool
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